Colgan to be welcomed to Newark by ALPA/Pinnacle Picketing
01-31-2008, 06:56 PM
#31
Tuk er jerbs!
Joined APC: Mar 2007
Position: B747 Left
Posts: 1,342
ALPA has sunk to a new low. I can't believe that they are actually going to picket against a company that they don't even represent! It is just like an immature child crying and pouting for not getting his way.
ALPA is crumbling, and they know it. With no success at Skywest and Colgan, and soon to voted out at US Airways, they feel they must resort to this behaivor.
Thank God for Right to Work laws so I won't have to join them.
ALPA is crumbling, and they know it. With no success at Skywest and Colgan, and soon to voted out at US Airways, they feel they must resort to this behaivor.
Thank God for Right to Work laws so I won't have to join them.
In this case, the Pinnacle pilot group is standing together for a cause they believe they've been wronged over. The folks at the ALPA offices aren't doing this to try to keep from "crumbling." The pilots are showing solidarity to push toward a common goal, and I'll raise a beer to that.
I'll say one thing: If I were EWR based, I'd be out there alongside them.
01-31-2008, 08:32 PM
#32
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2006
Position: Bus Driver
Posts: 211
ALPA has sunk to a new low. I can't believe that they are actually going to picket against a company that they don't even represent! It is just like an immature child crying and pouting for not getting his way.
ALPA is crumbling, and they know it. With no success at Skywest and Colgan, and soon to voted out at US Airways, they feel they must resort to this behaivor.
Thank God for Right to Work laws so I won't have to join them.
ALPA is crumbling, and they know it. With no success at Skywest and Colgan, and soon to voted out at US Airways, they feel they must resort to this behaivor.
Thank God for Right to Work laws so I won't have to join them.
Your posts are uninformed and comical at best. Just to name a few, you talk about Lorenzo not being such a bad guy. You refer to ALPA as the "mob". You belittle your colleagues attempts at PSA to better their compensation as "unreasonable". You state that our efforts at Pinnacle Airlines Inc. to achieve a fair contract are "Marxist". These are just a few references. Unfortunately I can not quote many of your "better" posts since the threads have been closed...
A quick search of your posts will illustrate a total lack of understanding of the airline business on your part (if you really are a line pilot) or a very cynical, childish and most pointedly inept attempt at manipulation if you are not. I still can't get over your pontifications regarding the evils of labor unions followed by your post demonstrating your total lack of comprehension or even knowledge of the existence of the Railway Labor Act, a basic tenet of the aviation profession.
Enough said.
Of course I have heard of the Railway Act, but I never understood it to prevent unions from striking. From what i understand, government employees are the only ones that are not allowed to strike.
All I was asking was when the strike started. I am hoping they do, because I am very interested to see what happens. I was not inviting all these slams that you people decided to throw on me.
As far as my previous posts, such as the post regarding Eastern, was gathered from information I researched in college, plus from a video I saw about the history of Eastern and airline deregulation. The video was very unbiased. Lorenzo alone was not the ONLY reason Eastern folded. The beligerant labor unions also had a factor in the demise of Eastern. Even then, Eastern probably wouldn't have survived the era of deregulation.
I respect you guys opinions, however, I do not appreciate the attacks. I would never belittle you despite that I may not share your beliefs.
All I was asking was when the strike started. I am hoping they do, because I am very interested to see what happens. I was not inviting all these slams that you people decided to throw on me.
As far as my previous posts, such as the post regarding Eastern, was gathered from information I researched in college, plus from a video I saw about the history of Eastern and airline deregulation. The video was very unbiased. Lorenzo alone was not the ONLY reason Eastern folded. The beligerant labor unions also had a factor in the demise of Eastern. Even then, Eastern probably wouldn't have survived the era of deregulation.
I respect you guys opinions, however, I do not appreciate the attacks. I would never belittle you despite that I may not share your beliefs.
Last edited by wolf; 01-31-2008 at 09:04 PM.
01-31-2008, 09:07 PM
#33
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2007
Position: 320
Posts: 709
If i could be there on the 4th i would be there. This is not so much an issue on what we think of alpa or any union but it is an issue of how we need to support all pilot groups. I dont care if you are pro union or not, all regional’s need to pay more and have better work rules. Pilots are not some uneducated person working at Wal-Mart. They have had a lot of training and have a large amount of responsibility on their shoulders. If we do not support each other then we will just have a race to the bottom. The breakdown of a first year fo’s pay is really sad when you put it into hours you work. I know 23/hr (flt) equals around 4 something an hour that you are on the job.
02-01-2008, 08:25 AM
#34
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2005
Posts: 555
As a colgan pilot, I don't mind the fact that PCL pilots are going to picket at EWR. I understand why they are doing it and it's a good time to get exposure while the heads at PCL will be there. It will probably also **** off CAL, which may put more pressure on them. I think the issue here is that PCL pilots are mad that they can't get fair contract and that money is being poured into colgan instead of a fair contract.
THe q400 pay needs work, and everyone here knows that. THe dynamic of our pilot group has changed a lot over the last year. A lot of the old timers that were anti union are now gone, and a lot of the new hires are now eligible to vote. Alpa saw a chance to bring us in last year and almost made it. Unfortunately, the timing was bad. THings this year will be different.
The only thing that bothers me about this picket are the few jackholes talking about the payrates. Yep, they suck. Old news there. ALPA even told us during the drive to fly the airplane and the rate will get fixed in the future. IT's a 70 seat plane, but it's a t-prop. Historically, t-prop rates have always been lower that jets of equal size. Look at Eagle, ASA, Horizon, Island Air, and lynx. All of those companies pay less for 70 t-prop than they do for a jet. WHy? Stage length. A 70 t-prop isn't flying from IAD to IAH, or DEN to ORD. THose planes are typically flying stage lengths of 400 NM or less. THat's why a 70 seat t-prop is not included in CAL scope. IT's never going to replace a guppy.
Colgan has a lot of steps to take in the near future. Representation is the first. IT will come this year. THe pilot group spent a year watching changes that were not supposed to happen. Everything was going to remain the same, remember that? uh huh, I remember! FOr all the colgan bashers out there, remember that most of you never had to stand up in front of a management group and risk your jobs on a union drive. You just got hired and signed your union card on the backs of someone else's hard work. Expressjet went ALPA in 2001 I believe, but it took 4 years to get a good contract. Back in 2000, expressjet was flying brasilia's, 1900's and ATR 42/72's. PCL was about the same. PCL pilots were flying saabs and jball 31's as express 1. What's my point in all of this? Colgan is going through what your companies went though 5 or 6 years ago. Your pilot groups made it though the transitions and changes with the help of ALPA and other pilots. COlgan pilots are just trying to do the same.
My request? Tone down the rhetoric against colgan pilots. We know what needs to be done, and it will get done this time. THe pilot group dynamic has changed and the stage is setting up for a victory this summer. Everybody can help colgan pilots join ALPA and raise the bar, or you can bash them and watch the bar get lowered. SO picket it up guys, and get that good contract that you have worked so hard for. If I wasn't working I'd be there. Just remember that colgan pilots didn't choose this fate, we f-ed up our last chance, and we are awaiting redemption day in Aug 08.
THe q400 pay needs work, and everyone here knows that. THe dynamic of our pilot group has changed a lot over the last year. A lot of the old timers that were anti union are now gone, and a lot of the new hires are now eligible to vote. Alpa saw a chance to bring us in last year and almost made it. Unfortunately, the timing was bad. THings this year will be different.
The only thing that bothers me about this picket are the few jackholes talking about the payrates. Yep, they suck. Old news there. ALPA even told us during the drive to fly the airplane and the rate will get fixed in the future. IT's a 70 seat plane, but it's a t-prop. Historically, t-prop rates have always been lower that jets of equal size. Look at Eagle, ASA, Horizon, Island Air, and lynx. All of those companies pay less for 70 t-prop than they do for a jet. WHy? Stage length. A 70 t-prop isn't flying from IAD to IAH, or DEN to ORD. THose planes are typically flying stage lengths of 400 NM or less. THat's why a 70 seat t-prop is not included in CAL scope. IT's never going to replace a guppy.
Colgan has a lot of steps to take in the near future. Representation is the first. IT will come this year. THe pilot group spent a year watching changes that were not supposed to happen. Everything was going to remain the same, remember that? uh huh, I remember! FOr all the colgan bashers out there, remember that most of you never had to stand up in front of a management group and risk your jobs on a union drive. You just got hired and signed your union card on the backs of someone else's hard work. Expressjet went ALPA in 2001 I believe, but it took 4 years to get a good contract. Back in 2000, expressjet was flying brasilia's, 1900's and ATR 42/72's. PCL was about the same. PCL pilots were flying saabs and jball 31's as express 1. What's my point in all of this? Colgan is going through what your companies went though 5 or 6 years ago. Your pilot groups made it though the transitions and changes with the help of ALPA and other pilots. COlgan pilots are just trying to do the same.
My request? Tone down the rhetoric against colgan pilots. We know what needs to be done, and it will get done this time. THe pilot group dynamic has changed and the stage is setting up for a victory this summer. Everybody can help colgan pilots join ALPA and raise the bar, or you can bash them and watch the bar get lowered. SO picket it up guys, and get that good contract that you have worked so hard for. If I wasn't working I'd be there. Just remember that colgan pilots didn't choose this fate, we f-ed up our last chance, and we are awaiting redemption day in Aug 08.
02-01-2008, 10:14 AM
#35
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2007
Position: Right Seat
Posts: 1,458
Your posts are uninformed and comical at best. Just to name a few, you talk about Lorenzo not being such a bad guy. You refer to ALPA as the "mob". You belittle your colleagues attempts at PSA to better their compensation as "unreasonable". You state that our efforts at Pinnacle Airlines Inc. to achieve a fair contract are "Marxist". These are just a few references. Unfortunately I can not quote many of your "better" posts since the threads have been closed...
A quick search of your posts will illustrate a total lack of understanding of the airline business on your part (if you really are a line pilot) or a very cynical, childish and most pointedly inept attempt at manipulation if you are not. I still can't get over your pontifications regarding the evils of labor unions followed by your post demonstrating your total lack of comprehension or even knowledge of the existence of the Railway Labor Act, a basic tenet of the aviation profession.
Enough said.
A quick search of your posts will illustrate a total lack of understanding of the airline business on your part (if you really are a line pilot) or a very cynical, childish and most pointedly inept attempt at manipulation if you are not. I still can't get over your pontifications regarding the evils of labor unions followed by your post demonstrating your total lack of comprehension or even knowledge of the existence of the Railway Labor Act, a basic tenet of the aviation profession.
Enough said.
If unions are so good and a must, how come the most sought after regional to work for, Skywest, does not have a union? Everyone is happy there and others seek to go there.
02-01-2008, 11:04 AM
#36
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2006
Position: A320 CA
Posts: 765
and companys like mesa and gojets. Where you are shunned for going; have unions
02-01-2008, 12:39 PM
#38
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2005
Position: Retired
Posts: 2,934
If you are going to quote me, do it right. Do not piece together things I have said into one like the media does.
If unions are so good and a must, how come the most sought after regional to work for, Skywest, does not have a union? Everyone is happy there and others seek to go there.
If unions are so good and a must, how come the most sought after regional to work for, Skywest, does not have a union? Everyone is happy there and others seek to go there.
02-01-2008, 12:58 PM
#40
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: In the doghouse
Posts: 136
I think we can safely say that he was simply being facetious (Seeing as SKW is headquartered in Utah). I certainly didn't take anything derogatory from it. Lets try to stay on topic.
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