ACEAV8R

that's how i thought it was. he did a good job nontheless but it sure is a messed up position to be in.....

HoboPilot

When you airline pilots (keep in mind I'm generalizing, nothing personal) make your announcements, just make sure that they're not in pilot jargon. I was on a flight out of MSP today that was delayed for 7 hours that started because of a problem related to the fuel pump.

The pilot who was making the announcements was talking about pressure switches and MEL procedures, which I understood pretty well because although I'm not a professional pilot yet, I'm on my way. But the rest of the passengers were clearly confused by the announcement and it only exacerbated the situation. One woman was yelling "What is a Minimum Equipment List and why is it keeping us from leaving!!??"

Just keep it simple, and if you can't, just make sure you explain it. We all know the general public is full of aviation retards. For my sake, try your hardest to keep the passengers happy. You guys have a bulletproof door between you and them, I have to sit next to them

I can't get any solid reading done when I'm surrounded by adults complaining like little children

Ottopilot

There was a survey done recently by airline passengers. The number one complaint of all the reasons to complain as a passenger was:

NOT BEING INFORMED ON WHAT IS HAPPENING!

You might not be able to "fix" your captain, but you can be a good one. You did his job. Flying is the easy part of being a Captain. It doesn't matter who's flying the leg, PA's can be made by anyone if you coordinate it with the other pilot (so they cover the radio calls). Should you go to Pro-standards or the chief pilot? That's your call. It may not even help. The passengers complaining about him might be the best thing for him. It will hopefully get to the right people to talk to him about it. If pilots don't like passengers, go fly cargo. Those people are your paycheck.

PA's should be clear, consise, and no pilot talk. The weather is not 2000 broken, it's party cloudy. I had passengers ask me what was "broken" when I've sat in the back with a PA like that. Don't even say ATC, they don't know what that means. Airtraffic control is understandable.

Put yourself in the passengers shoes. What do you want to hear/know?

Ottopilot

I would disagree with all of this. FO's should do something about "bad" captains.

1. Our company policy is to make a PA every 15 minutes when there is a delay or make one when something changes (hold, out of hold, divert, etc).

2. Pro-standards is the Union, not the company. You will NOT get anyone in trouble with that. DO IT. Going to the chief will most likely be a non-event to. The chief may or may not even talk to him. I would talk to the Captain first and ask him why he won't do his job.

3. The most danerous situations in the cockpit involve the FO keeping his mouth shut. You are co-pilots; meaning there are two pilots in the plane flying it according to your standard procedures. You are equal to the Captain, but he has the final say in matters as PIC.

Learn from your good and bad captains, so you can be a good one.

Freightpuppy

I agree.....

Freightpuppy

1. Ok

2. My point was that you should go to the person (in this case, the captain) first. If he is a chooch about it, THEN think about going to Pro Standards. I wouldn't go to PS without talking to the pilot about it first.

3. Good point but I wasn't saying to keep your mouth shut in the cockpit. I was saying to keep your mouth shut about the situation afterwards. If the guy has a reputation (which I later read that he did), I would be tempted to go to Pro Standards. If it was just a one time deal, I would keep my mouth shut.

ExperimentalAB

Why on earth would a Pilot tell the pax about MEL's and what-not?? Gotta crack up when I hear 'em talk like that on the PA...

JetJock16

"Ladies and gentlemen, sorry for the delay but we have Mx on the phone and we're working through the problem. Just to keep you in the loop we‘re having problems with our L ENG SOV and L ENG ATS not properly working which is causing a Master Caution NO STARTER CUTOUT even though the starter is cutting out. Intern our Automated PACKS system is becoming confused and not allow the APU LCV to open becuase our L ENG SOV won't close, the APU LCV supplies the PACKS with bleed air and cools/warns the cabin when the engines aren't running. Unfortunately we have to get this fixed because it is a "NO GO" item in our QRH and if it happens to us in flight we must shut down a perfectly good engine and land at the nearest suitable airport which is not the airport you bought a ticket for.

Well now that you fully understand the situation, customer service will be here soon to deboard the airplane because Mx must shut down the a/c and root around in the hey stack of wires and circuit boards in our Avionics Bay with the hope of being able to hide the problem so we can launch and Mgmnt can get their “Departure Fee.” Have faith that we as your pilots are looking out for our a**es and are demanding Mx write something that we can properly explain to the FAA after landing in BFE Arkansas.

Thank you for your understanding and patience."

Now why wouldn't a passenger understand that! LOL!

III Corps

If he has a reputation and nothing is changing, there is something amiss with professional standards and the Chief Pilot's office. He is paid to do certain things and if he is not going to do them, there is sufficient grounds to send him in for some 're-training'. Sometimes just a bit of light on the subject will trigger a change in behavior but if that is not enough, there are always other options like time off without pay, an extra LOFT with the FAA observing.

The job isn't hard and for someone to make it hard on everyone else is not professional and it can contribute to an unsafe operation.. hence professional standards.

ExperimentalAB

If this is the same guy I'm thinking about, I had the pleasure of flying with him once, immediately out of one of his CP carpet-dances. A buddy of mine got to fly with him recently as well...apparently (and unfortunately for him), the CP's words had long since been forgotten...