Regionals lowering thier mins, who's next??
11-29-2007, 10:09 PM
#41
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2006
Posts: 787
Why do you hope the age 65 legislation doesn't pass? It's only a matter of time before it does anyways, and the only effect raising the mandatory retirement age is further delaying or prolonging a shortage of pilots. Suppose it passes in '08, that would just push the years forward in which boomers will be retiring from '06 thru '20 to '11 thru '25. That's assuming everyone who does qualify to stay through until he/she turns 65 does, since I imagine there would be no real punishent for retiring early.
I'm not extremely well-versed in the age-65 stance, but I just don't see how it would have a huge impact on the industry right now. According to your numbers, we're looking at a pilot shortage (due to mandatory retirement) for at least another 13 years, what's a few more after that?
I'm not extremely well-versed in the age-65 stance, but I just don't see how it would have a huge impact on the industry right now. According to your numbers, we're looking at a pilot shortage (due to mandatory retirement) for at least another 13 years, what's a few more after that?
In addition, the more of a shortage there is in this industry, the better things will get. If the majors keep their 60 yr old capts for 5 more years, it will allow the regionals to keep pay down. If there ever is a shortage, it is in all pilots (UNDER 60) best interests to have that shortage as bad as possible...because it will force the regionals to increase pay and QOL.
So, I'm not sure where you fly, but if you're at a regional and you support age 65, don't ever complain about pay or QOL, because by supporting age 65 you're basically slowing movement from the regionals to the majors for 5 years, just so some 60 year old can make $200K for another 5 years working 10 days per month while everyone else scrapes by on peanuts. I'm all for paying dues, but there is a certain point where you gotta go gracefully and let someone else have a shot...kinda like MJ leaving the NBA at his peak.
11-30-2007, 09:54 PM
#43
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Joined APC: Sep 2007
Position: Jr. Gear Monkey
Posts: 57
I'm new to the aviation industry, and don't work as an airline pilot yet. I have an economics question. In every industry I can think of in a free market society, supply and demand drives prices/wages. If pilot pay is at an all time low, how can anyone argue that there is a pilot shortage? As long as there are thousands of us lining up to fly airplanes, employers will pay the lowest wage possible to keep their current employees. It's just supply and demand. When pay and work rules start to get better, then we will be in a pilot shortage. Help me understand this if I'm wrong.
Lowering mins just seems like a stop gap measure by management to hedge against raising pay, but I agree, they can only go so low. and then they will be forced to raise pay. Unless demand for air travel is curtailed for some reason. Anything can happen.
Lowering mins just seems like a stop gap measure by management to hedge against raising pay, but I agree, they can only go so low. and then they will be forced to raise pay. Unless demand for air travel is curtailed for some reason. Anything can happen.
12-01-2007, 05:24 PM
#44
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Posts: 903
Great - another pilot with a economics or business management degree coming into the profession ready to let the "Free market" decide his/her wages.
Of course, the more economics/business management kids that come into the profession, the quicker our union backbone washes away.
What the hell.
Quit thinking about economics and start thinking like a Professional Pilot. Let the suits find a way to reduce our pay, but I don't know about you. . .but I'm going to try to find away to increase our pay, not help the suits.
Wake up.
Of course, the more economics/business management kids that come into the profession, the quicker our union backbone washes away.
What the hell.
Quit thinking about economics and start thinking like a Professional Pilot. Let the suits find a way to reduce our pay, but I don't know about you. . .but I'm going to try to find away to increase our pay, not help the suits.
Wake up.
12-01-2007, 08:45 PM
#45
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Joined APC: Sep 2007
Position: Jr. Gear Monkey
Posts: 57
Surreal, sorry if I got under your skin. I wasn't trying to suggest that I know the answers, I really am trying to understand why it is the way it is. It seems to me what hurts pilots is our love of flying, we will do just about anything to do it. The situation is the same at the Union and non-Union airlines alike (although it looks like many of the Union shops have better work rules). I don't have an idea about how to improve pilot pay. I could learn a lot from any of you guys who have been in the industry for a while on how the pilots can work to increase pay. I hear it said a lot on these forums but not many actually suggest concrete solutions. I just don't see how it can happen when there is always a pilot standing behind you in line who will fly for less than you or I will. And every time a well qualified pilot applies to a regional and accepts $20K a year to safeguard the lives of 30-50 passengers, it reinforces the idea that there is no reason for the situation to change. I want to think like a professional pilot. What is the "correct" view on this subject.
BTW, I don't have a business management degree. My dad thought I should have gotten one, but I wasn't interested. Oh . . . and My dad was a career pilot
BTW, I don't have a business management degree. My dad thought I should have gotten one, but I wasn't interested. Oh . . . and My dad was a career pilot
12-01-2007, 10:16 PM
#46
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2007
Position: Capt
Posts: 3,215
Hi!
The fractionals are not doing as well as they would like with the hiring situation. This is why NetJets is offereing their pilots 95 more bases and lots more money. If they had plenty of pilots, they wouldn't give them more money.
I just talked to a guy who's bud's at Airtran. Their last two classes were for 25 slots. 2 classes ago they had 11, and the last class they had 8.
NWA had 1200 applicants the first few days or week they opened their hiring. The last time they opened their hiring, they had 12,000 in the same time period.
Hold out for MORE PAY/BETTER BENEFITS/MORE RETIREMENT $/BETTER WORK RULES!!!
cliff
TUS
The fractionals are not doing as well as they would like with the hiring situation. This is why NetJets is offereing their pilots 95 more bases and lots more money. If they had plenty of pilots, they wouldn't give them more money.
I just talked to a guy who's bud's at Airtran. Their last two classes were for 25 slots. 2 classes ago they had 11, and the last class they had 8.
NWA had 1200 applicants the first few days or week they opened their hiring. The last time they opened their hiring, they had 12,000 in the same time period.
Hold out for MORE PAY/BETTER BENEFITS/MORE RETIREMENT $/BETTER WORK RULES!!!
cliff
TUS
12-03-2007, 06:49 PM
#47
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2005
Position: Left Front
Posts: 191
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