SkyHigh

Lets all remember that this is an open forum of differing ideas. I enjoy writing about topics that I am knowledgeable and passionate about. I don't spend my day waving banners on the street. Most whom I work with in daily life don't even know that I am a pilot.

This thread is about working conditions at a regional airline. The web site is almost verbatim my experiences and complaints. It validates my positions and is evidence that my ideas are more mainstream than what most here would like to agree with.

I choose this forum (APC) because it is full of interesting and well thought out positions and ideas. The collection of people here are not typical of the majority of airline pilots however. Most here here are idealistic job huggers and the rest are wannabes. The average airline pilot is too beaten and depressed to venture into anything aviation on their days off. Most would agree 100% with my opinions and where is the fun in that?

I can assure everyone here that I wish our industry was different. I wish I could be able to testify that aviation was just and good. It pains me that I have lost my faith in the future of our profession. However it has never been one of my traits to be able to turn away from the truth.

This thread is about one company but it could serve most others as well. It also could fit many legacy airlines too. I personally never wanted to be a tool of management. I never wanted to be poor in order to stay in the seat. I choose aviation because I loved it and thought I could work hard and build a strong and fruitful career while being respected by my employer. The reality is sadly vastly different.

Those who are able to remain in the profession are the ones who will accept a career of constant abuse and who will sell off the majority of what they value in order to stay. Perhaps they will make it to someplace good but most will not. In trade they hold out hope that things will "change" and they will but not for the better.

Young wannabes come to this place and silently read. I am sure that they also go to other forums. I personally happen to like this place best. I also hold out a hope to be able to find a way back into aviation if I can find a situation that meets my needs.

You guys are all my friends. I am also endeared to those who are in opposition because who but your best friends would tell you that you are nuts?

Skyhigh

de727ups

"The average airline pilot is too beaten and depressed to venture into anything aviation on their days off."

Unsubstantiated gross generalization I don't believe to be true based on my experience.

"It pains me that I have lost my faith in the future of our profession"

Not your profession anymore. You left the fight but still want us to value your opinion as though you were still in it.

"I personally never wanted to be a tool of management."

I believe all airline pilots fit that catagory. If you can't deal with that aspect of the job, then you best not be in the biz.

HercDriver130

What he said....

Sky...ultimately the problem with you and OUR ( not your ) profession is that YOU want it ALL on YOUR terms. Unless you work for yourself ( as you do ) ( and even then it really isnt so ) there will ALWAYS be someone pulling the strings, demanding something of you, or quite literally making your life suck. You didnt like the business and what it cost YOU to be in it, fair enough, that however doesnt validate all of your opinions for everyone else. There are lots of professions that cost many years of training and much money to get into that dont pay squat. My brother ( who was a career Navy Helo pilot ) got is BS then a Masters in Urban and Regional Planning.... best job he could get way back then didnt pay squat ( less than O-1 pay in 1980 )..so he surveyed his options and ended up a career military officer. Teachers..that is another prime example of a profession which requires lots of training, and continual training and a masters degree eventually and for what... LESS than most 6 or 7th year regional CA's make.... and thats after a whole CAREER in teaching!!!! Im sure there are others.. and it really doesnt matter, the fact of the matter is that every career field has GREAT paying jobs, GOOD paying jobs... and CRAP paying jobs. Any there are people at ALL of those levels who might stay there for there OWN reasons...and thats OKAY!!! I suspect that NO Major carrier or any carrier for that matter would meet YOUR needs because you want it on YOUR terms with no give..... thats just no reality and it wasnt even reality in the Golden years you so fondly have spoken of.

SkyHigh

I am sure that the pilots as UPS, FedEx and SWA are very happy. The rest of the industry is taking it in the shorts. From your perspective I can understand why you would think that aviation is a loving and giving mistress. The rest of us are not so lucky.

We agree that I do not like being a tool. Let it be known to all who venture into aviation that your life will become a play thing of management. I choose to have a life of my own creation, that make me unfit to be an airline pilot I guess. I would say that it means that I have self respect and strive for a better life. Others need to judge for themselves.

Lastly I am still a fully licenced and qualified aviator. I didn't quit but was laid off and have not been able to find a suitable situation to re-enter the industry. More than half of those who use this forum are either wannabes or in some other branch of aviation and are not current airline pilots either. I have just as much right to be here as anyone else and am among the majority who post here.

Skyhigh

flyerfly

I compare this forum with a generalized argument between Christians and Atheists. Atheists will always know more about Christianity then Christians do. That's why their Atheists, and that is why you can NEVER, ever convince them otherwise.

So, all we can do is just put differences aside and focus on the task at hand so we can all reach a common agreement.

I am an AWACer and I feel this "Do We Have a Future Here" campaign will be a success. I however see issues with the general idea behind it.

A regional airline is not a place to make a career as so many pilots at AWAC have made it. I understand that at one point in time an AWAC Captain on the BAE146 made more money then what was offered at United Airlines.

However if they would have accepted United's offer and allowed themselves to be tacked to the bottom of United's list way back when; these RJ Captains that are still here at AWAC could have been 777 captains and making a lot more at United while being based in ORD where they all want to be.

Now many of them are approaching 60 and are stuck at AWAC and asking for a future. I could care less about some of these futures. I care about MY future. As a person who is fairly new, not crusty, and wants to eventually move to the left seat and have enough time to get my PIC and GET OUT!!! To me, "Do I Have a Future Here" Is my ticket to continue with my career at AWAC without giving anything up.

I feel it is not just an AWAC awareness, but an industry wide campaign for public awareness that their pilot just got 5 hours of sleep last night and can't pay rent.

SkyHigh

Teaching is a growing profession. Teachers sacrifise a lot but also get to go home at 4:00PM have every holidy, weekend and the entire summer off. They get a governement retirement and the satisfaction that comes from a profession that gives to others.

Teachers are in demand and enjoy growing compensation and community respect. Pilots....well you know where I am going.

I was a professional pilot for 17 years. Over that time I averaged 16K per year and moved more than a dozen times, and was laid off three times in my short career. My expectations were not all that high. I held on until I had others to think about.

It is true that I perhaps was not able to be happy while living an impoverished life as a pilot and tool of the industry while other pilots live the life of movie stars. I don't plan on making a habit of it either.

Seems to me that many pilots have beaten wife syndrome. They just keep taking more and more in hopes that "one day aviation will change for me". At some point the only wise thing to do is to pull the plug.

SkyHigh

SkyHigh

At one time nearly every 60 year old regional airline captain had plans of moving on to a major. Time and statistics could make AWAC your career destination. Then what will you do?

Not everyone gets a nice major airline job at the end, in fact most do not.

The catch is moving on to a major.

SkyHigh

Blkflyer

SkyHigh Just Go AWAY your negative Karma is so Annoying

de727ups

"More than half of those who use this forum are either wannabes or in some other branch of aviation and are not current airline pilots either."

Says who? Gawd, where do you come up with this stuff?

rickdb

After reading all this negativity, I have to put in my two cents. First off, teaching is a great profession (my mother was one and retired with a nice 50K pension). Teachers, in my opinion, make good money. In the surrounding suburbs in Chicago, a tenured teacher (after 20yrs and with a masters) is making six figures (even teaching at the middle school and grade school level). In regards to a pilot being a "tool of mgmt", everyone who is an employee is a tool of mgmt whether you are a pilot, teacher, corporate executive. Unless you are on the top, you are a tool of mgmt one way or another. I have been working in the business world for 2.5 yr since I graduated from college. Let me tell you, life isnt better on the other side. I am embarking on my journey to become a commercial in December. So I am one of the wannabee's in this forum. To be honest, if I didnt know any pilots and was just viewing this forum, it would definitely discourage me from entering the industry. However, I do know a few pilots who have provided me with worthwhile information (positive information without disregarding the realities of the industry). Any industry you get into, whether it is aviation, business, or shoveling ******* for a living their is going to be competition, washouts, layoffs, etc. The airline industry is definitely volatile, no questions about it, but I rather take a chance or risk and enjoy what I do for a living rather than being a pencil pusher with no guarantees.