Comair updates?
05-08-2010, 03:07 AM
Line Holder
Joined APC: Dec 2008
Posts: 82
Guys,
As a current DAL pilot who was around for the Comair strike, 9-11, furloughs etc, here is my 2 cents.
I along with most DAL do not hate anyone at Comair. I don't think I even know anyone at Comair. Yes, I am familiar with the "Letter" and have even posted it on this website when the topic came up. Not a high point for pilot solidarity, but not the end of the world also. I am not on the hiring committee but if I was I would take everything into account and would still hire Comair guys if I felt good about them. I do admit if it was a tie between a Comair guy and a ASA guy – the ASA guy would get the tie-breaker.
I also admit I would take the letter and the poor treatment of DAL pilots (from my perspective) into account and for guys at Comair pre 2001 it would be a negative, but not a deal breaker. For any Comair pilot hired after 2004 it would not even be an issue. I do admit I would have a hard time with any Comair MEC guys from that time frame - but people are individuals and I would like to think I would give everybody the benefit of the doubt. That being said, I am not a saint and can not say for 100% how I would handle every situation.
As far as why the Comair guys never had a flow through I was told the DAL MEC offered to bring them over to our list around 2000 to 2001 but the Comair guys wanted DOH which was a deal breaker. If that is indeed true, in hindsight it appears to have been a colossal blunder.
Finally, DAL has indeed hired Comair guys – so if you want to work at DAL update your application!
Just my 2 cents - Scoop
As a current DAL pilot who was around for the Comair strike, 9-11, furloughs etc, here is my 2 cents.
I along with most DAL do not hate anyone at Comair. I don't think I even know anyone at Comair. Yes, I am familiar with the "Letter" and have even posted it on this website when the topic came up. Not a high point for pilot solidarity, but not the end of the world also. I am not on the hiring committee but if I was I would take everything into account and would still hire Comair guys if I felt good about them. I do admit if it was a tie between a Comair guy and a ASA guy – the ASA guy would get the tie-breaker.
I also admit I would take the letter and the poor treatment of DAL pilots (from my perspective) into account and for guys at Comair pre 2001 it would be a negative, but not a deal breaker. For any Comair pilot hired after 2004 it would not even be an issue. I do admit I would have a hard time with any Comair MEC guys from that time frame - but people are individuals and I would like to think I would give everybody the benefit of the doubt. That being said, I am not a saint and can not say for 100% how I would handle every situation.
As far as why the Comair guys never had a flow through I was told the DAL MEC offered to bring them over to our list around 2000 to 2001 but the Comair guys wanted DOH which was a deal breaker. If that is indeed true, in hindsight it appears to have been a colossal blunder.
Finally, DAL has indeed hired Comair guys – so if you want to work at DAL update your application!
Just my 2 cents - Scoop
05-08-2010, 04:59 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2009
Position: Missionary
Posts: 309
Also, thanks "Scoop" for your post, and have to add that I'm not familiar with this infamous "letter", (shame on me). Tried to search it in APC, but nothing came up.
That being said, sure, whoever was behind a letter that still draws such animosity will probably not get a fair shake at DAL, but...come on, SCOOP...neither you nor I have control of our union "leadership" and all the bickering.
Like Tink, I guess I just don't understand why the vitriol for a pilot group that, individually, had nothing to do with this letter. My buddies at mainline are a classy bunch, and I can't see them being that petty.
05-08-2010, 05:20 AM
Line Holder
Joined APC: Dec 2008
Posts: 82
1st off...TINK!!...you back from playing in the desert?
Also, thanks "Scoop" for your post, and have to add that I'm not familiar with this infamous "letter", (shame on me). Tried to search it in APC, but nothing came up.
That being said, sure, whoever was behind a letter that still draws such animosity will probably not get a fair shake at DAL, but...come on, SCOOP...neither you nor I have control of our union "leadership" and all the bickering.
Like Tink, I guess I just don't understand why the vitriol for a pilot group that, individually, had nothing to do with this letter. My buddies at mainline are a classy bunch, and I can't see them being that petty.
Also, thanks "Scoop" for your post, and have to add that I'm not familiar with this infamous "letter", (shame on me). Tried to search it in APC, but nothing came up.
That being said, sure, whoever was behind a letter that still draws such animosity will probably not get a fair shake at DAL, but...come on, SCOOP...neither you nor I have control of our union "leadership" and all the bickering.
Like Tink, I guess I just don't understand why the vitriol for a pilot group that, individually, had nothing to do with this letter. My buddies at mainline are a classy bunch, and I can't see them being that petty.
05-08-2010, 05:27 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2006
Position: 737
Posts: 1,136
If you're looking for the "letter" it is posted on the DL latest and greatest thread. I think on 4/05/10. There's several posts on that date about Comair and what happened. I'm too lazy to go find it again.
05-08-2010, 05:43 AM
Line Holder
Joined APC: Dec 2008
Posts: 56
Letter
This has been cussed and discussed a few times in DAL L & G. Recent comments would start on page 3283. Actual letter was reposted on post #32832 on the next page.
05-08-2010, 05:51 AM
Line Holder
Joined APC: Dec 2008
Posts: 82
I think this is the letter and don't like that I'm condemned for what some DB did years before my time.
TO: Comair Pilots
FROM: J.C. Lawson, Comair MEC Chairman DATEecember 16, 2002
Your MEC met in CVG with the Delta MEC Chairman, Captain Will Buergey, at his request, to discuss preferential hiring of furloughed Delta pilots at Comair. Through this letter, I hope to dispel rumors and provide a more thorough understanding of the purpose and outcome of that meeting.
The Delta MEC, while in session at the bi-annual October Board of Directors meeting in Hollywood, Florida, formally directed the Delta MEC Chairman via resolution to meet with the Comair MEC Chairman to seek preferential hiring for furloughed Delta pilots at Comair while allowing them to retain their Delta seniority.
The general philosophy held by the Comair MEC is:
We are sensitive to the regrettable plight of all furloughed pilots in our industry.
We encourage our management to hire pilots who seek a future at Comair.
We have formally approached Comair management and our management has agreed to preferential hiring of furloughed ALPA pilots.
We agree with our company's policy that requires prospective Comair pilots to resign their seniority at their previous carrier. We believe our Company's industry-standard policy requiring seniority resignation is sound and wise. It promotes the general health and welfare of all Comair employees and serves to protect the future of our company.
At our meeting in CVG, Captain Buergey offered preferential hiring to Comair pilots if the Comair MEC would recommend to Comair management that they hire furloughed Delta pilots and allow them to retain their Delta seniority.
Your MEC responded that hiring any pilots at Comair who do not resign their seniority at their previous carrier gives rise to numerous substantive concerns. The Delta MEC's offer of (future) preferential hiring at Delta is not sufficiently substantive to overcome those concerns and solicit Comair pilots' support. We suggested three alternative concepts, any one or all of which might lead to a mutually beneficial solution:
Relax the Delta PWA, Section 1, seat restrictions imposed upon Comair and ASA that limit our growth in 70-seat and larger airframes.
Negotiate Delta Brand Scope language with Delta management that defines all Delta flying within the Delta revenue stream to be performed solely by Delta, Comair, and ASA pilots.
Negotiate a plan for future integration of our Delta, Comair, and ASA pilots seniority lists that fairly recognizes the efforts and contributions of all.
The Comair MEC stands ready to work with the collective MEC's to bring about change that makes sense in a challenging economic environment and works for all pilots who perform flying under the Delta brand. As we stated in the Tuesday, December 3rd meeting, our door is still open.
COMAIR MEC
AIR LINE PILOTS ASSOCIATION, INTERNATIONAL
SUITE 120 3940 OLYMPIC BOULEVARD ERLANGER, KY 41018
859-282-9016 FAX 859-283-5533
TO: Comair Pilots
FROM: J.C. Lawson, Comair MEC Chairman DATEecember 16, 2002
Your MEC met in CVG with the Delta MEC Chairman, Captain Will Buergey, at his request, to discuss preferential hiring of furloughed Delta pilots at Comair. Through this letter, I hope to dispel rumors and provide a more thorough understanding of the purpose and outcome of that meeting.
The Delta MEC, while in session at the bi-annual October Board of Directors meeting in Hollywood, Florida, formally directed the Delta MEC Chairman via resolution to meet with the Comair MEC Chairman to seek preferential hiring for furloughed Delta pilots at Comair while allowing them to retain their Delta seniority.
The general philosophy held by the Comair MEC is:
We are sensitive to the regrettable plight of all furloughed pilots in our industry.
We encourage our management to hire pilots who seek a future at Comair.
We have formally approached Comair management and our management has agreed to preferential hiring of furloughed ALPA pilots.
We agree with our company's policy that requires prospective Comair pilots to resign their seniority at their previous carrier. We believe our Company's industry-standard policy requiring seniority resignation is sound and wise. It promotes the general health and welfare of all Comair employees and serves to protect the future of our company.
At our meeting in CVG, Captain Buergey offered preferential hiring to Comair pilots if the Comair MEC would recommend to Comair management that they hire furloughed Delta pilots and allow them to retain their Delta seniority.
Your MEC responded that hiring any pilots at Comair who do not resign their seniority at their previous carrier gives rise to numerous substantive concerns. The Delta MEC's offer of (future) preferential hiring at Delta is not sufficiently substantive to overcome those concerns and solicit Comair pilots' support. We suggested three alternative concepts, any one or all of which might lead to a mutually beneficial solution:
Relax the Delta PWA, Section 1, seat restrictions imposed upon Comair and ASA that limit our growth in 70-seat and larger airframes.
Negotiate Delta Brand Scope language with Delta management that defines all Delta flying within the Delta revenue stream to be performed solely by Delta, Comair, and ASA pilots.
Negotiate a plan for future integration of our Delta, Comair, and ASA pilots seniority lists that fairly recognizes the efforts and contributions of all.
The Comair MEC stands ready to work with the collective MEC's to bring about change that makes sense in a challenging economic environment and works for all pilots who perform flying under the Delta brand. As we stated in the Tuesday, December 3rd meeting, our door is still open.
COMAIR MEC
AIR LINE PILOTS ASSOCIATION, INTERNATIONAL
SUITE 120 3940 OLYMPIC BOULEVARD ERLANGER, KY 41018
859-282-9016 FAX 859-283-5533
05-08-2010, 05:59 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2006
Position: B6 CA
Posts: 582
Just curious as I have no dog in this fight, and maybe I'm not seeing the big picture but why would the MEC care about resigning seniority numbers? Management I can understand but looks like DAL was offering a pretty fair deal, no?
05-08-2010, 06:03 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2009
Position: Missionary
Posts: 309
Dang, Tink, beat me to it! I just found it too, and all I can say is, Whiskey Tango Foxtrot were they thinking?!!!
Whoever J.C. Lawson is, he's got a lotta' 'splaining to do! What a tool!! For Chrissakes, they weren't even asking for a flow-back to left-seat RJ, just preferential hiring!! Isn't that the treatment we furloughees would expect at another ALPA carrier, like when Am. Eagle recently announced? I know we didn't get it, but isn't that the way it's supposed to work?
As usual, the old saying that, "Pilots are their own worst enemies" is fitting.
Thanks, J.C....wherever you are!!!!
Whoever J.C. Lawson is, he's got a lotta' 'splaining to do! What a tool!! For Chrissakes, they weren't even asking for a flow-back to left-seat RJ, just preferential hiring!! Isn't that the treatment we furloughees would expect at another ALPA carrier, like when Am. Eagle recently announced? I know we didn't get it, but isn't that the way it's supposed to work?
As usual, the old saying that, "Pilots are their own worst enemies" is fitting.
Thanks, J.C....wherever you are!!!!
05-08-2010, 07:52 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2007
Position: FO
Posts: 3,044
Dang, Tink, beat me to it! I just found it too, and all I can say is, Whiskey Tango Foxtrot were they thinking?!!!
Whoever J.C. Lawson is, he's got a lotta' 'splaining to do! What a tool!! For Chrissakes, they weren't even asking for a flow-back to left-seat RJ, just preferential hiring!! Isn't that the treatment we furloughees would expect at another ALPA carrier, like when Am. Eagle recently announced? I know we didn't get it, but isn't that the way it's supposed to work?
As usual, the old saying that, "Pilots are their own worst enemies" is fitting.
Thanks, J.C....wherever you are!!!!
Whoever J.C. Lawson is, he's got a lotta' 'splaining to do! What a tool!! For Chrissakes, they weren't even asking for a flow-back to left-seat RJ, just preferential hiring!! Isn't that the treatment we furloughees would expect at another ALPA carrier, like when Am. Eagle recently announced? I know we didn't get it, but isn't that the way it's supposed to work?
As usual, the old saying that, "Pilots are their own worst enemies" is fitting.
Thanks, J.C....wherever you are!!!!
05-08-2010, 08:03 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2008
Position: Back of the Furlough Bus
Posts: 222
I know there are a lot of guys at Delta that hate Comair pilots because of the MEC Comair had but I think it is less than most people think. I always hated saying I was Comair asking for the jumpseat on Delta expecting a ripping but I never once met a Delta pilot that was dick to me because I was Comair they were always nice to me.
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