Comair updates?
11-05-2009, 02:11 PM
West Coast livin
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Mar 2007
Position: Captain
Posts: 984
My facts are spot on. Your premise is fatally flawed.
the only reason Comair shows a "profit" is because all of the arrangements for regional lift, both wholly owned and not wholly owned, are what is called cost plus - As long as performance targets are hit, Comair will make cost plus 2% or 4% or 10% or whatever...as long as targets are hit, Comair (and any other regional) cannot lose money - they will always show a "profit" on their books. The difference is, Delta may not be able to cover the "cost +" with the revenue from the tickets. So Delta's goal is to find the CHEAPEST guy to do the flying.
If the deal is cost + 10%, for example, and it costs Comair $1000 to fly the flight, then Delta pays them $1100. If Delta can only make $900 on the tickets though, in the end Delta lost $200 operating the flight - but Comair will show a "profit" of $100. Net loss to the Delta Corporate familiy - $100 (Comair +100, Delta loss -200).
Now take the same scenario but lets assume it is Compass and they can fly the flight for $800. Delta will pay them the same cost + 10%, or $880 to fly the flight. If Delta collects the same $900 for tickets, then Delta makes $20 on the flight and Compass collects $80 of "profit". Net gain to the Delta Corporate family - $20 (Delta +$20)
There is nothing inaccurate about my facts - this is the way it works, so like any business owner Delta really does not care if it is done in house or outsourced, as long as it is profitable.
Does that make sense? That is why the real goal is to find whoever can do it the cheapest.
the only reason Comair shows a "profit" is because all of the arrangements for regional lift, both wholly owned and not wholly owned, are what is called cost plus - As long as performance targets are hit, Comair will make cost plus 2% or 4% or 10% or whatever...as long as targets are hit, Comair (and any other regional) cannot lose money - they will always show a "profit" on their books. The difference is, Delta may not be able to cover the "cost +" with the revenue from the tickets. So Delta's goal is to find the CHEAPEST guy to do the flying.
If the deal is cost + 10%, for example, and it costs Comair $1000 to fly the flight, then Delta pays them $1100. If Delta can only make $900 on the tickets though, in the end Delta lost $200 operating the flight - but Comair will show a "profit" of $100. Net loss to the Delta Corporate familiy - $100 (Comair +100, Delta loss -200).
Now take the same scenario but lets assume it is Compass and they can fly the flight for $800. Delta will pay them the same cost + 10%, or $880 to fly the flight. If Delta collects the same $900 for tickets, then Delta makes $20 on the flight and Compass collects $80 of "profit". Net gain to the Delta Corporate family - $20 (Delta +$20)
There is nothing inaccurate about my facts - this is the way it works, so like any business owner Delta really does not care if it is done in house or outsourced, as long as it is profitable.
Does that make sense? That is why the real goal is to find whoever can do it the cheapest.
A wise Vulcan once said Whatever is left- no matter how improbable or illogical- must be the truth. The truth, skywatch is both wholly owneds are losing flying- what is the logical conclusion? R.A. is still PMSin about the strike when that Turd wasn't even at Comair. It is impossible to look forward when you look backward. I think he 's going to fold Comair, or merge it with Mesaba (highly illogical).
Honest question, for some odd reason you strike me as a management type - Do you own your own business or are you an airline executive who just so happens to run a certain airline at CVG?
If you are I have one question- where's my ham?
11-05-2009, 03:50 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2006
Position: Displaced FO on reserve forever
Posts: 260
Who the heck is running this MEC?! I havn't worked at Comair in 4 months and am still getting letters from the MEC wanting money. Here is the best and most recent.
My fellow Comair Pilot,
I hope life finds you well as our business sure stinks. I am the lucky one to whom the membership committee for ALPA CMR 45 has turned, to remind you that an assessment was approved and passed along to the membership. I urge you to please address this financial matter as soon as possible to prevent your removal from the rolls of active Comair pilots and subsequently Comair employment as is stipulated by ALPA National by-laws. It isn't our MEC which dictates this. If you have begun paying or have paid this assessment in full, please disregard this notice. If you haven't, come on and get off the wallet. I'm certainly not Mr. Moneybags and managed to get my share paid. The latest information I have is that your balance due is $20.00. If this is incorrect call me and I will try to get the problem rectified. I hate bill collectors too so don't yell at me. xxx-xxx-xxxx.
Fraternally,
XXXXX
My fellow Comair Pilot,
I hope life finds you well as our business sure stinks. I am the lucky one to whom the membership committee for ALPA CMR 45 has turned, to remind you that an assessment was approved and passed along to the membership. I urge you to please address this financial matter as soon as possible to prevent your removal from the rolls of active Comair pilots and subsequently Comair employment as is stipulated by ALPA National by-laws. It isn't our MEC which dictates this. If you have begun paying or have paid this assessment in full, please disregard this notice. If you haven't, come on and get off the wallet. I'm certainly not Mr. Moneybags and managed to get my share paid. The latest information I have is that your balance due is $20.00. If this is incorrect call me and I will try to get the problem rectified. I hate bill collectors too so don't yell at me. xxx-xxx-xxxx.
Fraternally,
XXXXX
11-05-2009, 05:17 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2008
Position: blueJet
Posts: 4,535
Who the heck is running this MEC?! I havn't worked at Comair in 4 months and am still getting letters from the MEC wanting money. Here is the best and most recent.
My fellow Comair Pilot,
I hope life finds you well as our business sure stinks. I am the lucky one to whom the membership committee for ALPA CMR 45 has turned, to remind you that an assessment was approved and passed along to the membership. I urge you to please address this financial matter as soon as possible to prevent your removal from the rolls of active Comair pilots and subsequently Comair employment as is stipulated by ALPA National by-laws. It isn't our MEC which dictates this. If you have begun paying or have paid this assessment in full, please disregard this notice. If you haven't, come on and get off the wallet. I'm certainly not Mr. Moneybags and managed to get my share paid. The latest information I have is that your balance due is $20.00. If this is incorrect call me and I will try to get the problem rectified. I hate bill collectors too so don't yell at me. xxx-xxx-xxxx.
Fraternally,
XXXXX
My fellow Comair Pilot,
I hope life finds you well as our business sure stinks. I am the lucky one to whom the membership committee for ALPA CMR 45 has turned, to remind you that an assessment was approved and passed along to the membership. I urge you to please address this financial matter as soon as possible to prevent your removal from the rolls of active Comair pilots and subsequently Comair employment as is stipulated by ALPA National by-laws. It isn't our MEC which dictates this. If you have begun paying or have paid this assessment in full, please disregard this notice. If you haven't, come on and get off the wallet. I'm certainly not Mr. Moneybags and managed to get my share paid. The latest information I have is that your balance due is $20.00. If this is incorrect call me and I will try to get the problem rectified. I hate bill collectors too so don't yell at me. xxx-xxx-xxxx.
Fraternally,
XXXXX
11-06-2009, 04:11 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2007
Position: "if it's got wings, I can crash it".
Posts: 886
To all my November 05 friends, Happy Anniversary 
Cessna 126,
you're going to have to call ALPA national. Same thing happened to me. They'll want to charge you until your furlough date. If you don't pay, you'll be placed in an "innactive status", but with access to their site, etc. Then if/when you get recalled or hired at another airline and ALPA is there, you'd have to pay that money before joining again. Can you feel the love?.
Cessna 126,
you're going to have to call ALPA national. Same thing happened to me. They'll want to charge you until your furlough date. If you don't pay, you'll be placed in an "innactive status", but with access to their site, etc. Then if/when you get recalled or hired at another airline and ALPA is there, you'd have to pay that money before joining again. Can you feel the love?.
11-06-2009, 06:32 AM
Gets Weekdays Off
Joined APC: Feb 2007
Position: Economy Minus
Posts: 1,053
Your premise is precluded by logic. So Delta pays Comair a little more money. That profit- all of it- goes back into Delta's coffers. Delta is doing nothing more than creative accounting.
A wise Vulcan once said Whatever is left- no matter how improbable or illogical- must be the truth. The truth, skywatch is both wholly owneds are losing flying- what is the logical conclusion? R.A. is still PMSin about the strike when that Turd wasn't even at Comair. It is impossible to look forward when you look backward. I think he 's going to fold Comair, or merge it with Mesaba (highly illogical).
Honest question, for some odd reason you strike me as a management type - Do you own your own business or are you an airline executive who just so happens to run a certain airline at CVG?
If you are I have one question- where's my ham?
A wise Vulcan once said Whatever is left- no matter how improbable or illogical- must be the truth. The truth, skywatch is both wholly owneds are losing flying- what is the logical conclusion? R.A. is still PMSin about the strike when that Turd wasn't even at Comair. It is impossible to look forward when you look backward. I think he 's going to fold Comair, or merge it with Mesaba (highly illogical).
Honest question, for some odd reason you strike me as a management type - Do you own your own business or are you an airline executive who just so happens to run a certain airline at CVG?
If you are I have one question- where's my ham?
Seriously though, you missed something. In the example I gave you, THERE IS NO PROFIT when Comair flies the flight, only when Compass flies the flight, because of the higher costs at Comair. Comair HAS to be paid a "profit" because of the cost plus arrangement, but Delta loses more than that on the flight - so there IS NO PROFIT for Delta when Comair flies the flight, while there is if Compass does it. If you cannot (or don't want to) understand that, I cannot think of anyway to make it clearer. Part of the problem, I admit, is that as a business model it is a pretty stupid way to do business, with your partners assuming NO risk in the equation.
Since you seem big on logic, here is a logical conclusion - all the wholly owned are losing flying because some of it is not making money. Delta therefore wants less regional aircraft in the mix - and they have contracts with other carriers that have minimum levels that they have to honor. Have you noticed that a lot of the other Delta Connection guys are suing Delta? That they tried twice to dump Mesa? That they dumped Coex and Big Sky?
I just don't buy the whole "Delta hates us, that is why this is happening" argument. Do I hate the way this industry works and do I think the powers that be make a lot of stupid decisions? Yep. Do I think they have it out for us personally? Maybe. But do I think that this kind of grade school "I hate Comair so I am going to kill them" mentality would fly with a Board of Directors overseeing a billion dollar company? In the end it just seems pretty improbable that Delta would destroy an airline they paid 1.4 Billion for just cause they don't "like" them.
11-06-2009, 09:13 AM
C21H30O2
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: L/R or workin' the panels!
Posts: 356
To all my November 05 friends, Happy Anniversary
Cessna 126,
you're going to have to call ALPA national. Same thing happened to me. They'll want to charge you until your furlough date. If you don't pay, you'll be placed in an "innactive status", but with access to their site, etc. Then if/when you get recalled or hired at another airline and ALPA is there, you'd have to pay that money before joining again. Can you feel the love?.
Cessna 126,
you're going to have to call ALPA national. Same thing happened to me. They'll want to charge you until your furlough date. If you don't pay, you'll be placed in an "innactive status", but with access to their site, etc. Then if/when you get recalled or hired at another airline and ALPA is there, you'd have to pay that money before joining again. Can you feel the love?.
11-06-2009, 09:37 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Posts: 493
Seems to me that the lease returns in 2012 are going to be the wild card in the "100 50 seaters to be parked" drama.
In 2010 - 20 ASA 200s will leave.
In 2010 - 15 Comair 200s will leave.
In 2010/11 - 22 Freedom 145s will leave.
In 2010/11 - 25 Chautauqua 145s will leave.
In 2011 - 6 Comair 200s will leave.
This leaves 2012 as the year for the balance of the 100. The numbers add up to 12 for 200s to leave in 2012. The "100" number can always change, but going based on that number RA said, it would be interesting to know when the next batch of leases over at Comair are up?
FACT: Skywest/ASA are locked into a long term deal
FACT: Pinnacle is locked into a long term deal with planes DL has on long term lease, courtesy of the NWA bankruptcy and are at the "floor" for their fleet of 200s at 124.
FACT: Mesaba, while wholly owned operates planes on long term leases held by DL (the same batch Pinnacle operates.) Just because the fleet is small, doesn't automatically make it a target.
The only way I see more 200s leaving the fleet is parking the Comair ones as their leases are up, or offering more 2 for 1 deals to the contract carriers to the further demise of Comair and Mesaba. If DL takes 200s away from Mesaba, they would just get reallocated to another operator. Therefore, unfortunately, I think the balance of the 200s to leave the fleet will come from Comair, dealing them yet another, unfortunate blow.
In 2010 - 20 ASA 200s will leave.
In 2010 - 15 Comair 200s will leave.
In 2010/11 - 22 Freedom 145s will leave.
In 2010/11 - 25 Chautauqua 145s will leave.
In 2011 - 6 Comair 200s will leave.
This leaves 2012 as the year for the balance of the 100. The numbers add up to 12 for 200s to leave in 2012. The "100" number can always change, but going based on that number RA said, it would be interesting to know when the next batch of leases over at Comair are up?
FACT: Skywest/ASA are locked into a long term deal
FACT: Pinnacle is locked into a long term deal with planes DL has on long term lease, courtesy of the NWA bankruptcy and are at the "floor" for their fleet of 200s at 124.
FACT: Mesaba, while wholly owned operates planes on long term leases held by DL (the same batch Pinnacle operates.) Just because the fleet is small, doesn't automatically make it a target.
The only way I see more 200s leaving the fleet is parking the Comair ones as their leases are up, or offering more 2 for 1 deals to the contract carriers to the further demise of Comair and Mesaba. If DL takes 200s away from Mesaba, they would just get reallocated to another operator. Therefore, unfortunately, I think the balance of the 200s to leave the fleet will come from Comair, dealing them yet another, unfortunate blow.
11-06-2009, 10:21 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: Up front
Posts: 396
To all my November 05 friends, Happy Anniversary
Cessna 126,
you're going to have to call ALPA national. Same thing happened to me. They'll want to charge you until your furlough date. If you don't pay, you'll be placed in an "innactive status", but with access to their site, etc. Then if/when you get recalled or hired at another airline and ALPA is there, you'd have to pay that money before joining again. Can you feel the love?.
Cessna 126,
you're going to have to call ALPA national. Same thing happened to me. They'll want to charge you until your furlough date. If you don't pay, you'll be placed in an "innactive status", but with access to their site, etc. Then if/when you get recalled or hired at another airline and ALPA is there, you'd have to pay that money before joining again. Can you feel the love?.
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