SpatialD

I have almost 1200 hrs. - about half in the right seat of a 23,000lb. turboprop doing the quintessential freight dog thing. Most people I've spoken with who have enough experience to know what they're talking about have generally discouraged me from bothering with an RJ career track, but I'm not quite ready to scrap the idea altogether without getting some more information.

My basic dilemma is whether I should go for a 135 Multi PIC job (hopefully turbine) in the freight biz, or try to find a jet gig that will move me into the left seat sometime before I retire, and leave the dirty business of flying freight behind - I don't really enjoy it much at this point, but I feel like I'm getting great experience. Also, I do think it would be better with a different company as PIC, but still not exactly my dream job.

Mostly I'd like to hear from some current and former regional types with a little time in their logbooks. I figure the day will come when I'll wish I had known now what I'll know then There seem to be so many potential directions to take from here - all different, but none that clearly jump out as being the best (PIC in the plane I'm flying now would be nice, but not with this company). Also, keep in mind that I'm 30 and my wife and I are expecting our third kid. Can't live on jack much longer, but with the right schedule I could supplement with a little flight instructing or something if the job was worth it in the long run.

1. Why should I or shouldn't I go to a regional carrier?
2. Are any of them upgrading new guys before the next decade?
3. Any in particular that I should set my sights on or avoid, and why?
4. Am I better off building Multi PIC for a while (I have "lots" of M/E SIC, but less than 10hrs. PIC)?
5. If I fly freight too long, will it become more difficult to cross over to something like a corp or frax operation - or even a major?
6. Any other suggestions?

I used to think I had it all figured out, but now that I've been flying professionally for a little while, the more I learn, the less I know where to go or what to do. And I'm not sure whose advice I should be listening to either - but right now I'd like to hear yours. Thanks.

SkyHigh

Go to wherever you can upgrade the fastest at a 121 operator. RJ FO time is totally worthless and these days you will waste years and years waiting to upgrade in one. Go to Colgan or Regions Air or something like that.

SkyHigh

Future Furlough

Have you thought about fractionals at all?

You mentioned not being able to survive on little pay for much longer, so I wouldn't recommend going someplace like Colgan or the like. The times of high growth and hiring sprees are over, so upgrade time is going to be driven by attrition and luck of the draw. If you aren't set on moving up to a main line carrier, find a place with good quality of life. As a family man, that may end up being more important than anything else.

Good luck.

SpatialD

Thanks. Yeah, QOL is a biggie - and I figure there will be lots of other ways to make money once my family and I get on our feet a little.

I'm definitely looking at the fractionals or corporate ops as a possible long-term move in the future, but pretty sure I still need to log some more time for the good ones, and I get the impression that they aren't always real impressed if you got all your hours in a freighter.

But if SkyHigh is right and RJ FO time is worthless (which has always been my impression too), the question remains - is 135 PIC time any better? Right now, those seem like my two immediate options.

BTW, I hear ya SkyHigh about upgrading at Colgan and the like, but the Shorts I'm flying now is similar in class to the Saab, and I'm pretty sure I could have the left seat sooner in it if I stay 135 and keep working like a dog. What's more beneficial: upgrading to PIC sooner, or doing it 121 later?

SkyWestPilot

I've been at a SkyWest for six years and don't regret it. Sure pay was low to start off with, but my wife and I were young with no kids. Now we've got three and are doing fine.

To answer your questions:
You should not because the first year pay is horrible. It would be very tough with a family.
You should because it's great experience and you'll accumulate flight time quickly 600-1000 hours a year.
You should not if you are not willing to move. Commuting for a regional, while it can be done, sucks with a family wanting you home for more than one or two days a week.
You should because you can upgrade in 2-4 years and get valuable jet PIC time.

I don't know the exact upgrade times and with the latest Delta and NW Chap. 11 fallout and the the USAir/America West merger, things seem to be changing daily with the regionals. Typically Skywest, ASA, AirWisconsin, Mesa, CHQ, Trans States, ExpressJet have all had upgrades in the 2-4 year timeframe. Eagle and Horizon have been notorious for long upgrades, 4-7 years. Many of the smaller Beech 1900 operators have upgrades less than a year.

Any of the above with the exception of GoJet would be great options, and I'll let someone else go into that ball of wax. It all depends on where you want to live. Most regionals operate the same and have similar work rules, pay and schedules. Some have training contracts that you have to watch out for. Example would be Great Lakes in Denver- I think it's 15 months- if you leave before that you have to shell out like $7000. ouch!

With so many of us with jet PIC on the market for the majors, it would be a tough jump from Piston PIC to a major. Many are looking for turbine PIC and even have a requirement for 750-1000. It would be good if you could find a charter operation that's got the potential to move into a jet PIC spot.

I never flew cargo, so I can't answer that.

Despite the downturn in the industry, you're still in a good position. With the likes of Southwest, Frontier, AirTran and JetBlue, there are still good career pilot jobs to be hadat the airlines. Sure you may not get to that ultimate 747 international gig flying 10 days a month for $250K, but you'll have a great job that pays a decent wage.

Jared

I have also seen a lot of experienced people say that the regional jet track is not the way to go. Have you had any luck with trying to get any of them to suggest anything better? I certainly haven't. It seems like nearly everyone's grass is a little bit brownish these days, so I think it is a little bit misleading to merely say that the grass on the regional side of the fence isn't green. I have a friend who works for delta (at least last time I talked with him he did and I hope he still does) and he told me how annoying it was to hear people complaining about upgrade times. He pointed out that it took him almost 10 years to upgrade, so 3 years really isn't that long of a time. Keep in mind too that if you go to a regional now, think of where you will be when the next expansion does happen. Will you be there ready to upgrade, or will you be somewhere else trying to get hired? For me, I decided to go the regional route, and I guess only time will tell whether it was a good choice!

CoATP

Get your PIC time. It is experience for which they are looking. Fly in winter with snow and ice, in summer with weight restrictions ... You'll build up your knowledge base faster than in the right seat at FL340. I've got 500+ in freight dogging and 1000+ in 135 commuter, all in the mtns. The experience could not be replaced. It will also get a you a feeling for the different companies. Judging from many posts there are some folk who do not understand what BAD really means.

What ever you decide to do ... execute to the best of your ability and do not beat yourself up over woulda, coulda, shoulda

SpatialD

Thanks everyone. Yeah, I'm probably fretting about it more than I should - I'm just so close to those 135 mins (and a new baby, and a stack of unpaid bills...) all I can do is sit here and mull it over and over while I wait for another trip.

It would be so tempting to take the first thing that would make ends meet right now, but I do want to keep at least one eye on the long term big picture, which is very blurry to say the least. Keep the replies coming - this is good stuff.

IFLYPLANES

Spatial, where do you fly out of? Not west memphis is it?

Superpilot92

if you are thinking about regionals try and get in somewhere asap because seniority is everything. Life here at XJET has been really good for me. I am about to get off of first year pay so it will alot better pretty soon. If you can manage through year one then i think some of the regionals are great jobs. I pretty much work 4 on 3 off and i am at home about 14 to 15 days a month. Thats important to me because i have a 9 month old. If you go the regional route i suggest moving to where ever you get based because commuting stinks. Its so nice to finish up your flying at home.

Good luck