SkyHigh

If we were to look at financial needs from the perspective of someone who is just starting out today at 23 and intends to raise a family in middle class suburban America it takes a fortune; college debt, down payment on a house, daycare for small children, car payments, stay at home spouse. Just buying a house will be a huge challenge.

Someone who is already half way through raising kids and bought their house perhaps 15 years ago when they were much cheaper will have much different income requirements. By then it it possible to have two cars that are paid off, a house payment that doesnt seem like a crushing monster anymore, two parents who are working and children who are in the job market themselves.

If a young couple wants to live the American dream in middle class suburbia then it is imperative that they earn strong wages from the start. 40 to $60,000 per year as a starting wage is needed for two people to be able to begin to pay down college debt and begin to save for a house before the kids come.

An airline career pays so little and it takes so long to reach a decent wage that pilots are often well behind on the financial power curve and will have a difficult time catching up if ever. It is urgent to start out on a strong financial footing. A typical pilot career can not do that.


Skyhigh

flynavyj

I'd say the majority of careers don't start a person off well enough to earn that 60k a year...40k , yeh, you'll find jobs that start w/ that, but while regional pay is typically seen as 20k, it's more realistically closer to 30. Personally, i could use an extra thousand or so a month, but if all goes well, a couple months from now i'll have several thousand more, and be all the happier.

Freightpuppy

Ok, but you said nice NEW car. When someone says that, I think brand new. 2 year old is used. Not giving you a hard time but that's what I thought you meant.

Freightpuppy

I agree with you. It all depends on what you want. Do I want a lot of stuff? Of course! Do I need a lot of stuff to still live a happy and FULL life (as Skyhigh says)? Not really. If I had my sweetheart, the job I have, a decent 2 bedroom condo and could go on vacation every year, I would be very happy and I would feel like I live a full life. Now, add in a few kids, I might need a 3 bedroom modest home but it doesn't have to be huge for me to be happy. I think you can have all this for less than $100K a year. I understand what people are saying that say you need over 100K but that boils down to WANTS not NEEDS. I grew up in a trailer park, I never went on vacation as a child, we never had fancy cars (by the way, I would rather drive a beater than have a car payment....I think cars are the BIGGEST waste of money....I don't need to impress anyone with my car) and my childhood was not in any way unhappy. Heck, I was even bullied as a kid and I don't run around crying about it on talk shows saying how it ruined my life. There is nothing wrong with "wanting it all". You only have one life and I want it all too but I don't need to have it all to live a full and happy life.

By the way, I think it's great that all of you want to pay for your kids college but you don't have to. You are responsible for them until 18 and then they are on their own. It is not an obligation. By the time they are in college and they are adults, they can take student loans. I think helping them out is great but if you give your kids everything at your expense, what does that teach them? I think a lot of the problems with kids these days is that they are given EVERYTHING and there is no effort to earn it themselves. I will help my kids with college if they are doing well but only if I can. I sure as he!! won't be putting off retirement for it, I can tell you that. They need to earn something on their own.

FlyingDog

You could not have said it better...

I am stoked to have a $500 Nissan Truck with Ice Cold A/C (a big deal in Fla.) and no car payments

Oh - but I do have a plane payment (c172) - which is less than most car payments...

And kids... if they have the idea that everything is an entitlement - they are on their own.... if they try I help them to the best of my ability.

rickair7777

You're right, I was estimating. I should have done a spreadsheet before I started this mess

Freightpuppy

About 5 years ago, my fiancee's friend who is a financial planner came over to talk to us. He absolutely freaked me out when he said we would need 8.5 million dollars in the bank assuming we retire at 55 and die at 95!!!! He said we would need to start putting away $50,000 a year starting that year to meet that goal.

For about 2 years I was freaked out. I was constantly saying we need to up our 401k, blah blah blah.

Then, I was talking to someone about 401k's and such and they mentioned that the more these financial planners get you to invest, the more they make. They also said that they thought that these people freak people out and get them to put more money in. That really got me thinking and I finally stopped freaking out.

Now, that being said, I am not saying you should blow off your 401k or anything like that, but you also need to look at the big picture. Noone knows how long they will live and while retirement planning is important, you also need to live your life and in order to do that, you need some of that money now. One of the things that my financial planner also said was to take into consideration was that by the time you retire, your house (one of your biggest bills) will probably be paid off. I look at it this way. If you cannot get it together enough to have a paid off house by the time you retire, I don't really feel sorry for you. There is NO way I will retire with a house payment. If that means downsizing, so be it. I figure when I retire, I don't need a 3500 sq. ft. house. A condo is just fine.

My fiancee's dad is about to retire and his finance guy says they will be fine with $1 million. Their house is paid off. My fiancee's dad's friend's house is not paid off and he has 500 toys. Guess what? He can't retire. My point is is that I think having your house paid off is HUGE. Over and out.

rickair7777

Actually I would vastly prefer that my kids do well enough in high school to get scholarships...that's certainly what we encourage.

But if they don't quite get there, now what? There are many good state schools, but the one in my town has an open admission policy...anybody who applies gets accepted. This means they have WAY more students than staff or facilities, so it typically takes 7 or more years to get a 4 year degree.

Or what about a kid who get's accepted into an ivy league school or Stanford...that's quite an accomplishment and you'd like to see the child actually be able to go since he/she put forth the effort to get in.

A big college fund is not an absolute requirement, but it is certainly a reasomable goal.

Freightpuppy

Like I said, it's great if you can help, but it's not a requirement. As far as getting into an ivy league school, I would say that where there's a will, there's a way. I would think that if they get into a school like that, there is a way to take a loan out if sucking off the parent's teet won't suffice.

The comment that doesn't sit well with me is the one you made about going to a community college is half a$$ed. I think it's a good idea to go to a community college for the basic classes. It's a heck of a lot cheaper if you are concerned about helping out. I would encourage my kids to go to a community college over one that's 5 times the cost for the same classes.

Another thing I don't get is private schools (prior to college). Maybe I take the place I live for granted because we have good schools (and pay out our a$$es for property taxes for it) but there is NO WAY IN HE!! my kids are going to private school. They are going to the public school that they tax the $hit out of us for.

Freightpuppy

Well, then they screwed up now didn't they? I guess Johnny has to take a school loan since he didn't apply himself enough. That's the price you pay for not doing well enough. In some countries, you cannot even go to college unless you do well enough but then it's free. I wish it was like that here. I don't think someone should have to pay to educate themselves. The goverment in this country rewards losers and screws the contributing members of society.

Rant over....