SKYHIGH is in for a surprise
08-21-2007, 09:53 AM
#51
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2007
Position: 744 CA
Posts: 4,772
hum..rick i guess only about 5 percent of americans are making a livable wage by your estimation.
08-21-2007, 10:48 AM
#52
Prime Minister/Moderator
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: Engines Turn Or People Swim
Posts: 40,108
I'm not talking about just barely getting by, and neither am I talking about owning your own yacht and bizjet. I'm talking about the american dream, comfortable upper-class living with time and resources for self-fulfillment.
Look at a mid-grade military pilot...what does he make?
Hold On! Before you answer that, take into account bonuses, the non-taxable allowances, the benefits, and the retirement...with the exception of a few marginal bennies you won't get any of that at most airlines.
If you do the math, he's well over $100K.
A gross-misconception that so many of us make is that we see personal finances in the same terms that our fathers and grandfathers did...$100K sounds like a lot of money to them. But they all had defined-benefit pensions!
After you take out a huge chunk for taxes and 20-30% for retirement savings you don't have much left. Part of the problem is many folks do not save enough for retirement...they throw 3-5% in the 401k and then stop worrying about it. Unfortunately, that's not going to work out for them in the long term.
It's obviously OK to make less when starting out, but you need to have a plan to make more than $75K...or you need to understand and accept what your lifestyle is going to be. I think many younger folks do not understand the cost of the lifestyle that they assume they will have some day.
Anybody 40+ with a spouse, two kids, and a house in large metropolitan area care to comment on their financial requirements?
08-21-2007, 12:06 PM
#56
Prime Minister/Moderator
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: Engines Turn Or People Swim
Posts: 40,108
08-21-2007, 12:06 PM
#57
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Posts: 762
Assuming you have no independent finances (inheritance, trust fund, military pension, etc), $150K would be reasonable for a family of four. This would allow you to...
-Own an upper-middle class home in a major urban area (or a modest ranch/farm in the sticks).
-Furnish your home.
-Own 2 reasonable cars.
-Save for retirement: 15% to 401k PLUS another 10-15% to personal investment vehicles. If you start at age 22, the 15% to the 401k might be enough but most folks don't start that young. For retirement planning you need to assume that you will live to age 90...that's where the trend is going and you don't want to be a burden to your kids. You will need at least $1 Million to retire modestly, more if you want to be very active and/or retire earlier than 60.
-Afford a couple of nice vacations each year.
-Pay for day care and other kiddie expenses.
-Save for college (x2).
-Own a cabin or time-share condo.
-Own a boat, airplane, dirt bikes, or other hobby item (your wife will want her own hobby...maybe a horse).
This all assumes an somewhat upper-middle class lifestyle. I can positevly 100% guarantee you that SJS will NOT allow you to be satisfied living a lower-class lifestyle for the next 30-40 years...it only lasts for 6-12 months.
I know a number of regional CA's who get by fine on $80-90K, but they all have somehing going for them...either the spouse works, or they made out in the real estate boom. A big real-estate score can pretty much provide the retirement fund....now all you need is beer money. Since we are having this conversation, I assume that you didn't do real-estate in 1999 and instead will have to save for your own retirement.
-Own an upper-middle class home in a major urban area (or a modest ranch/farm in the sticks).
-Furnish your home.
-Own 2 reasonable cars.
-Save for retirement: 15% to 401k PLUS another 10-15% to personal investment vehicles. If you start at age 22, the 15% to the 401k might be enough but most folks don't start that young. For retirement planning you need to assume that you will live to age 90...that's where the trend is going and you don't want to be a burden to your kids. You will need at least $1 Million to retire modestly, more if you want to be very active and/or retire earlier than 60.
-Afford a couple of nice vacations each year.
-Pay for day care and other kiddie expenses.
-Save for college (x2).
-Own a cabin or time-share condo.
-Own a boat, airplane, dirt bikes, or other hobby item (your wife will want her own hobby...maybe a horse).
This all assumes an somewhat upper-middle class lifestyle. I can positevly 100% guarantee you that SJS will NOT allow you to be satisfied living a lower-class lifestyle for the next 30-40 years...it only lasts for 6-12 months.
I know a number of regional CA's who get by fine on $80-90K, but they all have somehing going for them...either the spouse works, or they made out in the real estate boom. A big real-estate score can pretty much provide the retirement fund....now all you need is beer money. Since we are having this conversation, I assume that you didn't do real-estate in 1999 and instead will have to save for your own retirement.
You take those things out of the equation, and that would lower your "needed" income for a comfortable living. I, personally, do not believe those things which I just listed are nesscary to having a comfortable, happy lifestyle.
Plus, I am assuming $150k is the household income. Most families have both spouses working and not because they have to, ask any young girl what they want to be when they grow up, and I can guaruntee the popular answer is not a housewive or stay at home mom. So when you look at it like that, they would each have to make around $75k, since the household income would then be around $150k. So when we start looking at a family of 4 needing $150k, we are acutally looking at each spouse bringing in $75k or so.
08-21-2007, 01:51 PM
#60
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2007
Position: 744 CA
Posts: 4,772
Rick, Alot of what you mentioned are just things. Man I can tell ya... things dont mean crap. I lost EVERYTHING....those things didnt make me happy, family, friends, and being content with ones self will make you happy.
Dont get me wrong, I am not againt THINGS.... but some of what you listed isnt required for a happy GOOD life.
Dont get me wrong, I am not againt THINGS.... but some of what you listed isnt required for a happy GOOD life.
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