12oclockHi

Regarding logbooks in general and E logs in particular, what are the common errors applicants make that could (or actually does) affect a successful interview. Anyone in the process (on either side of the hiring/interview) I'd like your best and worse examples.

Mx241

I have 2 paper logbooks. I started using ForeFlight in 2019. I have it printed landscape and put it in a 7 ring binder. I bring it all to interviews…Never had a complaint
•Be careful to get the registration numbers correct and aircraft type correct especially if it’s not a common plane…
•Using simulator time to meet an hour requirement towards ATP is acceptable for a regional or any job requiring ATP minimums. Once you get the ATP remove the simulator from your total time before you apply for your next job…
•Be careful logging SIC in airplanes that don’t require one. Some 135’s have an opp spec for it, can’t remember what it’s called. It’s a bad look and they’re gonna throw it out anyway.
•Be prepared to compile your pic, sic, solo time etc. all sorts of different ways. Each airline has their own way to tabulate all that. It can be frustrating.
•••only log flights you really flew•••it’s not hard to prove it if you did it. It’s impossible to sort out a lie.
Those are just a few I’m sure I’m missing a lot. Maybe JB can chime in.

rickair7777

Do not mix sim in total time at all. Employers will know that total time (airplane time) + sim time = aeronautical experience for certs & ratings.

If you have to put a "total value" in online app to get past the filter, fine if that's how they setup their application.

Generally yes. But do some research if you have this kind of time, I think there was a recent change and there are nuances. DO NOT log this time unless you know exactly what you're doing, and understand the rules.

DO NOT take an employer's word for it... they will always say it's OK to log


Some elogbooks will generate reports which match various employer formats. LogbookPro for example will generate an AirlineApps format report.

Regionals and bottom feeders may or may not care.

But the better majors have people who are pretty good at sniffing out weird stuff in logbooks. In this day and age it's really easy to google an N-number and even call the owner...

I've heard of all these (at my regional)...

N-number does not exist.

N-number has been assigned to different type since 1960.

Flights logged to DC area airports which were closed after 9/11.

Airplane destroyed before the flights were logged.

Owner said the plane was never rented or loaned to other pilots.

Owner rental or mx logs contradicted the applicant's logged time.

I did hear about a guy who bought a 152, logged many months worth of bogus flights, then advanced the hobbs to match what he needed. He got caught because he bragged about it


Be aware that one of the reasons many airlines are anal about time logging is because several airlines ended up hiring guys who had built a lot of time flying drugs from down south. They really don't like unexplained gaps in employment, and the want the logbook to match your life story.

12oclockHi

Thanks for the input. It appears that feedback from pilots interviewing, a lot of interest is placed on reviewing logs. The rationale is understandable, it does require the pilot to understand all the nuances of the law regarding what is required for any given flight check/rating or job interview. I know from having been young once that organization and neatness are not always a trademark of some 20 somethings. I'm mentoring my 20 something and want to give good, relevant advice and logbooks are one area where I see a potential to either shine or be set back by something as simple as being more careful and thorough in logging flight experience. It would be great to hear from HR people, pilot interviewers, or others who's job it is to past judgement on the validity of the (flight logs) from applicants they have vetted.

rickair7777

Employers to day are actually less interested in logbooks in the past. Regionals and lower-teir because they're desperate, and upper tier majors because they tend to hire people with known-quantity backgrounds, ie ten years in the mil or at a regional comes with a lot of formal documentation.

But I'd still suggest keeping a good log, electronic is fine for deets, but still need the paper book for some endorsements which you might happen to acquire. The totals in the paper book can be an annual summary, or not even keep a total there. Pilot shortage won't last forever, and some employer might be picky years from now.

HazyIPA

If your electronic logbook allows you to attach pictures to entries, you can take a picture of the paper logbook endorsement and attach it to the corresponding e-logbook entry. I do this for any CFI endorsements (since I hate the idea of any single point of failure) as well as any rental invoices/receipts since one of the FBOs from which I rent has a...let's call it a less-than watertight system.

Dutch95

Regarding the actual in person logbook review, do I need to bring my original paper logbook as well as printoffs of my E-logbook or is only E-logbook acceptable? This is for a Regional airline as well.

Mx241

They emailed a list of items to bring. I had it all organized in the order of the list (copies of DL, certs, medical, etc)
Bring all of your log books. Flag all significant events with a tab. PPL, Instrument, CPL, etc. Anything to organize and make the review task easier for the person stuck doing it will be appreciated. I have a nylon cover for my paper logs and a leather laptop size bag for my printed electronic log, paper logs, and everything else. I keep an envelope with birth certificate and SS card. Bring your passport and radio operator permit too. You never know.

greatmovieistar

Regionals are only desperate for CAs right now. Have been able to have their choice of FO applicants for a while now.

JohnBurke

For a lot of years, my logbooks were always reviewed. The last couple of employers didn't seem to care, and the current employer said bring them, but then didn't want to see them. The chief pilot took one log, glanced at a couple of pages, tossed it back. The interviewers knew what they needed to know simply with the face to face. A sim check will fill in any gaps.

I know most of what I need to know in the first few minutes of talking to an airman. Anything after that is simply confirmation.

It's tempting to inflate times, when you're inexperienced: don't.

Simulator time shouldn't be logged as category or class, total time, PIC, SIC, or anything else. Just as simulator time. If you were instructed in a simulator, it should be in your logbook, but don't contaminate any other totals or columns in your log with the sim time; let it reflect the instruction you received, and that's all. If you find yourself giving instruction in a sim, log that too...you can show it as instruction given, and I would to legally memorialize the training you've given as a CFI, but same thing applies...don't put it in any other column than simulator, and perhaps instruction given.

Regarding flight time in single-pilot aircraft, as SIC; it's legal in the appropriate venue and it's not wrong to put in your logbook. Perhaps you were acting as SIC in a Cessna 402, for example: this is an airplane certified as single-pilot, but under IFR under Part 135, requires two pilots, unless the operator has a single pilot exemption. Log SIC where you're qualified and where it's legal, and where it's required by either the type certification, or the regulations under which the flight is operated. If it's merely an insurance or company requirement (neither are regulations requiring a SIC), then don't. As noted above, don't rely on what the employer tells you. The employer has self-interest at heart, not necessarily your interest.

Keep near, accurate logbooks, specially starting out. The accuracy and attention paid to your logs is a statement about you. Illegible handwriting, sloppy bookkeeping, spagetti and beer stains on the pages are also statements about you: make the statement that reflects you in the best light. Falsified logs are often easy to detect. Lots that have been kept over a period of time, have different pens in different colors of ink with subtle changes in handwriting, changes in the way the poster logs (which will happen as you get more experience), and so forth, are small, but telltale hints, as is wear on the logbook itself. I once examined a box of logbooks by an individual who used the same pen for every entry in half a dozen logs; same exact handwriting, clearly made the same day and she went through one page after the other. Each logbook had straight lines of wear, evidence that he'd roughed them up on cement by rubbing them back and forth in an attempt to "age" them.

I looked over a resume and logs from a pilot who claimed to have flown for xxx airlines. I didn't recognize the name of the airplane. It turned out to be a "virtual" airline, something I hadn't heard of at the time. The individual dressed up in a pilot costume each day, and reported to his computer at home, where he'd fly a scheduled "trip" with someone else who was also online, going through all the motions on his computer at home. He logged it as though he'd accumulated the flight time. To hear him tell it, he thought he was entitled to do so.

The old wives tale about the guy who logged hours in airplanes he saw on the ramp...and was discovered by the FAA during a checkride when one of the airplanes turned out to be the FAA inspectors airplane...ever heard that one? I met an inspector who had that very experience, of an applicant who presented a logbook with hours logged in the inspectors airplane. The problem, for the applicant, was that the inspector had never met the applicant until that day. That wasn't just a bused ride, but a falsified logbook, which is a lot more serious. Don't do that.

I knew a designated examiner, deceased now, who advised applicants to falsify their logbooks "just to get enough time to get that first job." He'd tell the applicants that if their conscience bothered them, they could "just not log some time" later on. Really bad counsel.

I'm not a big fan of computer logbooks, but many pilots use them to good effect. Do as seemeth you good. I got a good bit of advice long ago, when I was younger. I was looking at a small biplane for sale, in the corner of a hangar where I worked. The seller, an airline pilot, said no one would know what the type was, if I put it in my logbook. "Take a picture," he said. Put the picture inside the cover of the logbook. "It will be a great ice breaker at an interview." I've done that with a few airplanes over the years, and sure enough, it's turned into conversations in interviews that turned to friendly chat. My logs are scrapbooks. every medical I've had is glued in the back of them. Neatly, professionally, but affixed there none the less. Business cards, here and there. Pictures.

If you keep paper logs, make searches easier for an interviewer. Put sticky notes or tabs or the little "sign here" type arrows on the pages, pointing to noteworthy flights or milestones: your checkrides, for example. I use removeable arrows and write the event on the arrow: XXX type rating, for example. XXX captain upgrade checkride, and so on. Not necessary, but a nice touch.

PIC...the FAA has a lot of definition for PIC, so far as logging the time, but only one definition for the person acting as PIC, or often referred to by the FAA as the acting PIC. That's the person with final responsibility for the safe outcome of the flight. The person who IS the pilot in command. If that's you, log the PIC to your hearts content. If that's not you, then be careful logging the time as PIC. It's PIC to you, to your friends, and to the FAA, but unless you're the one who "signed for the airplane," who IS the actual acting pilot in command, then most employers see the time as puffing up your logbook. If you were instructing and able to log PIC, do that. If you were doing the sole manipulator thing for a buddy in his 172 while he was under the hood and you were the acting PIC, it's legal to log, but will not loo good to many employers, and just as the FAA often doesn't understand the regulation, those doing your interview may not get the finer points of logging time, either. (I recently heard about an individual who logged time as a civilian in a C-130, who was subsequently not given a job interview at a very big freight operator, because the interviewer was under the false impression that there were no C-130's in the civil world).

It used to be a thing, not so much now, that up-and-coming fledgling aviators would ride along with buddies on night freight runs, and log the dead legs. That's problematic for several reasons, but an employer who sees that you have time in a BE-99 when you're not employed by someone who operates a BE-99, may be rightfully suspicious of your claims.

Too much time logged too quickly, or "above your pay grade," also looks suspicious. I had ample time to observe a new-hire who struggled and failed and was fired. The new-hire claimed a thousand hours of Hawker time, but it turned out that person had worked as a secretary for a charter service that flew the Hawkers. That person claimed six hundred hours of helicopter time in the LA basin doing traffic watch, but couldn't talk on the radio. That person claimed 2,500 hours total time, but had just gotten their commercial two years prior. All screamed badly falsified credentials. That person went on to apply or get hired at other places and either didn't make it, or got cut shortly thereafter. I recently saw their resume online, greatly inflated, without any possibility of having the time or experience they claim. Presently that person claims to be employed by a legacy carrier. The skills certainly didn't match the paperwork. These things show. The modern mantra of "fake it 'till you make it" is dangerous and often more transparent than hopefulls think. Be honest, be clear, and show your work, and you can't go wrong. Any other way, can and very likely will come back to bite you.

Good luck.