mia1900fo

Hope I dont get bashed for this post.................Its just a question

Ive noticed that here and on jetcareers alot of people hate on Gulfstreamers and other pft/pfj outfits. I just dont see the reason to bash on these guys so hard if they decided to take this route. My wife last week finished up her CS training at Spirit and I was picking her up and the pilot class was finishing up. 95% of the guys there were from GFT...........So if guys are making it to a "major" like Spirit, why should you call them scabs and that they will never get a jumpseat or that interviewers wont consider them. I also have friends at DAL, CAL, SWA and TRS that were all ex-GFT'rs; Both FO's and Capts. So why hate? let these guys be.
All the BS about paying youre dues and this and that dont matter these days. Airlines want pilots and want them now not 2 years from now when we finish CFIing. I just feel that these guys dont deserve all the bashing...... I am not a GFTer but just made that my screen.....Im sweating bullets in the right seat of a 152 just like the rest of us trying to make it.................Just wondering why dont you guys bash CFI's for making that choice and not going GFT and pay for a job or rent a right seat. Its all the same ******* we paid for CFI just as they paid for GFT. Just my 2 cents......

Speedbird172

I think one of the biggest differences is the value of what you learn as a cfi as opposed to learning to read checklists and paying for time in aircraft that the rest of us earn. Before I started instructing I didn't even feel ready to handle 121 flying; and whether or not I actually could have made it, I feel so much more prepared now with several hundred hours of dual given under my belt.

the King

Just because management believes a 300 hour pilot is the same as a 1000 hour pilot doesn't make it true. Management is concerned with making a schedule, finding a crew for said schedule, and keeping said schedule while filling up that schedule. That's what they do. They don't care about who flies, just that the flight happens and they make money on it. However, the pilot should (and usually does care) who he/she flies with. It doesn't help that many of the graduates of those programs act superior because they've benefitted from a low-barrier job market. 5 years ago, they'd be instructing or not working. They were lucky to benefit from a hiring frenzy. In addition, many of us know several people who took any route they could to avoid "paying their dues" and in my case, several of those people would not have made it through the long way. It says a lot when the school you went to doesn't want to hire you as an instructor even though they need instructors. Again, this is the experiences I've had and aren't comprehensive. But just like any stereotype, if there wasn't some truth to it, it wouldn't be noticed by so many.

rickair7777

In the airline business, the accepted industry principle is that you charge the going rate for flying passengers. It is also accepted that you will acquire your licenses at your own expense (or uncle sam's), but that aircraft specific training is provided by the employer (with a few exceptions).

If you charge much less than the going rate, you're an idiot for selling yourself short, and you're undercutting the rest of the industry. An example of this is mesa...they are not accorded a great deal of respect in the industry.

GIA however takes this to ludicrous extremes...you actually PAY for the "privilege" of flying passengers!

I would not refuse to hire a GIA grad, but they would be last in line behind pretty much everybody else.

SaltyDog

Simply put, when airline management knows an individual will pay for a job, then they charge big and turn it into a profit center. Management then correctly decides to pay bottom dollar said individual poverty wages a year to fly their customers around. Then they figure they can skimp on benefits, etc since said individual is willing to allow management these benefits. It rolls uphill, next company sees pilots are willing to do anything to get said job, Voila, profession runs downhill. Repeat. Many in the profession want to break the cycle, not perpetuate the cycle. I don't blame management. We are a capitalistic economy, so it is up to each pilot to pull to better our profession. Jonathan Ornstein now at Mesa stated when I was at the old COEX he did not want us to hang around, cheaper to keep churning the pilot group. (Besides, it is a profit center to "train" pilots to work at the company) Lower wages, more profit for him/company/stockholder. Bad for pilots as a profession. We wanted to put it into the contract that PFT would not be allowed, it started 2.5 years after I showed up because the industry was stagnant. Did not fly. IMO all unions should fight the concept to help new guys out. i.e. put it in the contract. Right now, things in market opposite, so good time to get it in for when the market collapses again.
Many see the folks you describe as counterproductive. I will let them ride though. Also, it isn't appropriate to call them scabs unless they are, that is a word that should truly be left for the scab and not diluted. Oh, and pilots are a pilots worst enemy. One of the contradictions of life that is true.

Deez340

I don't buy the claimed source of this post for one second. You are either a Gulfstream pft (pay for training) tool or a lazy whining CFI looking for permission to become one. Someone who was really out there paying their dues would not have to ask why Gulfstream pis*sed off real Airline Pilots, or question the value of the very dues (experience for both the cockpit and life) he was paying.

sigep_nm

They are sometimes bashed because they are PAYING to do a job that any other qualified pilot should be getting paid to do. As was stated previously it is counterproductive to those who are trying to increase the industry QOL. While some could see it as an extension of training, it is none the less a passenger revenue generating flight, and the pax should be the only people on board paying to be there.

ce650

Do schools charge the janitors to clean the hallways, do hospitals charge interns to treat people? when you go to a resturant, do the trainee wait-staff pay the resturant for the learning experience bringing your food to you? I mean come on, dosen't this sound retarded? why is it ok for gulfstream? pull your head out of your a$$

Deez340

His head is probably to far gone. I'm not convinced we're dealing with intelligent life here. Anyone who puts

"All the BS about paying youre dues and this and that dont matter these days."

in their post can't be taken seriously. I'm pretty sure i called this one in my previous post. either that or someone's having some fun with us.

garritto

I definitely think there's something to say about someone who flight instructed...but you'll never hear my bash a gulfstream guy