Piedmont - Envoy - PSA
11-28-2022, 09:30 AM
#12
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2021
Posts: 390
Here is a scenario. As an FO you learned how to fly a V1 cut, and run an RTO following procedures and calling the right people talking to passengers and stuff. They give you soft rejects like no airspeed or stick pusher activation, and you follow your training.
Your brain trains itself for two options: correct procedure for reject and correct airmanship/procedure for V1 cut.
Now as CA they roll the engine back 10-15knts before V1 and you accidentally continue committed to a great V1 cut. Your brain trained for two outcomes and the first one didn’t happen before 80 so your hot for the second one.
They rewind you and now your ready for high speed reject and feel annoyed but understand. You never got to run the actual RTO procedure post event because you continued incorrectly. You studied and are going to show them you and the FO will get that RTO done correctly even with stress of high-speed rejects.
This time 10-15kts before V1 you get anti-skid master caution and reject because you need redemption and are thinking about running a good post event RTO to show them you know your stuff and build their confidence in you.
Boom, two strikes and you haven’t left the ground. Good instructors are teaching you to really think, and it’s assumed that the stuff you learned as an FO you already know. It may or may not happen on a checking event, but some students don’t like feeling jerked around even on non jeopardy, and complain and don’t appreciate good training just because they got their feelings hurt from too much pride and ego.
The weaker new CAs neglect their command authority, because they’re focused on their triggers, flows, calls, energy mgmt, and SA because that’s what was tough for them when they were weak FOs. Sometimes the command authority is in itself task saturating, and causes neglect elsewhere.
It’s ok to acknowledge that, make a decision and fly the plane the way they taught you. When you debrief a stressful sim just remember it was built to stress you out on purpose.
Last edited by OpieTaylor; 11-28-2022 at 10:13 AM.
11-28-2022, 10:36 AM
#13
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2018
Posts: 476
It’s good training. Just difficult sometimes.
Here is a scenario. As an FO you learned how to fly a V1 cut, and run an RTO following procedures and calling the right people talking to passengers and stuff. They give you soft rejects like no airspeed or stick pusher activation, and you follow your training.
Your brain trains itself for two options: correct procedure for reject and correct airmanship/procedure for V1 cut.
Now as CA they roll the engine back 10-15knts before V1 and you accidentally continue committed to a great V1 cut. Your brain trained for two outcomes and the first one didn’t happen before 80 so your hot for the second one.
They rewind you and now your ready for high speed reject and feel annoyed but understand. You never got to run the actual RTO procedure post event because you continued incorrectly. You studied and are going to show them you and the FO will get that RTO done correctly even with stress of high-speed rejects.
This time 10-15kts before V1 you get anti-skid master caution and reject because you need redemption and are thinking about running a good post event RTO to show them you know your stuff and build their confidence in you.
Boom, two strikes and you haven’t left the ground. Good instructors are teaching you to really think, and it’s assumed that the stuff you learned as an FO you already know. It may or may not happen on a checking event, but some students don’t like feeling jerked around even on non jeopardy, and complain and don’t appreciate good training just because they got their feelings hurt from too much pride and ego.
The weaker new CAs neglect their command authority, because they’re focused on their triggers, flows, calls, energy mgmt, and SA because that’s what was tough for them when they were weak FOs. Sometimes the command authority is in itself task saturating, and causes neglect elsewhere.
It’s ok to acknowledge that, make a decision and fly the plane the way they taught you. When you debrief a stressful sim just remember it was built to stress you out on purpose.
Here is a scenario. As an FO you learned how to fly a V1 cut, and run an RTO following procedures and calling the right people talking to passengers and stuff. They give you soft rejects like no airspeed or stick pusher activation, and you follow your training.
Your brain trains itself for two options: correct procedure for reject and correct airmanship/procedure for V1 cut.
Now as CA they roll the engine back 10-15knts before V1 and you accidentally continue committed to a great V1 cut. Your brain trained for two outcomes and the first one didn’t happen before 80 so your hot for the second one.
They rewind you and now your ready for high speed reject and feel annoyed but understand. You never got to run the actual RTO procedure post event because you continued incorrectly. You studied and are going to show them you and the FO will get that RTO done correctly even with stress of high-speed rejects.
This time 10-15kts before V1 you get anti-skid master caution and reject because you need redemption and are thinking about running a good post event RTO to show them you know your stuff and build their confidence in you.
Boom, two strikes and you haven’t left the ground. Good instructors are teaching you to really think, and it’s assumed that the stuff you learned as an FO you already know. It may or may not happen on a checking event, but some students don’t like feeling jerked around even on non jeopardy, and complain and don’t appreciate good training just because they got their feelings hurt from too much pride and ego.
The weaker new CAs neglect their command authority, because they’re focused on their triggers, flows, calls, energy mgmt, and SA because that’s what was tough for them when they were weak FOs. Sometimes the command authority is in itself task saturating, and causes neglect elsewhere.
It’s ok to acknowledge that, make a decision and fly the plane the way they taught you. When you debrief a stressful sim just remember it was built to stress you out on purpose.
Strike two was me being stupid and calling for Nav on a hdg departure.
Strike 3 was busting a speed on a star, another first look item. Yeah, my LOE was my first time seeing a Star with a speed restriction, and tbh, just something I wasn’t prepared for. Plenty of things that I studied and looked over prior to my LOE. That one fell through the cracks. Again, my fault, again it shouldn’t be a first look on a check ride is my biggest thing.
11-28-2022, 01:50 PM
#14
New Hire
Joined APC: Jul 2022
Posts: 1
I did DEC at PSA, no issues at all, training was great and it took 72 days from start to type ride. I had no CRJ experience, and finished IOE in about a month. It could have been 3 weeks but my FAA ride got reschedule. I only had about 5 days between ground training and sim training and then like 6 days before my first flight. Honestly I haven’t found anything to complain about here so far. Don’t pay too much attention to all the bad comments here.
11-28-2022, 02:42 PM
#15
In a land of unicorns
Joined APC: Apr 2014
Position: Whale FO
Posts: 6,633
My issue with PSA was getting first looks on a check ride. I’ll admit that my checkride failure was mine and mine alone. That being said on LOE I received a starter malfunction that I’d never seen before nor did it manifest in the manner that any other had. Called for a checklist and exceeded limit by 2 seconds. Strike one and a first look on something.
Strike two was me being stupid and calling for Nav on a hdg departure.
Strike 3 was busting a speed on a star, another first look item. Yeah, my LOE was my first time seeing a Star with a speed restriction, and tbh, just something I wasn’t prepared for. Plenty of things that I studied and looked over prior to my LOE. That one fell through the cracks. Again, my fault, again it shouldn’t be a first look on a check ride is my biggest thing.
Strike two was me being stupid and calling for Nav on a hdg departure.
Strike 3 was busting a speed on a star, another first look item. Yeah, my LOE was my first time seeing a Star with a speed restriction, and tbh, just something I wasn’t prepared for. Plenty of things that I studied and looked over prior to my LOE. That one fell through the cracks. Again, my fault, again it shouldn’t be a first look on a check ride is my biggest thing.
11-28-2022, 05:20 PM
#16
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2018
Posts: 476
Originally Posted by dera;[url=tel:3538780
3538780[/url]]But those are not "first look" maneuvers. Flying a STAR is an event set and having a speed constraint is not "first look". Same goes to starter malfunction.
11-29-2022, 01:48 PM
#18
In a land of unicorns
Joined APC: Apr 2014
Position: Whale FO
Posts: 6,633
You didn't brief the STAR?
The fact that you haven't done one before does not mean it's a first look maneuver.
11-29-2022, 03:20 PM
#19
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2019
Posts: 1,964
I did DEC at PSA, no issues at all, training was great and it took 72 days from start to type ride. I had no CRJ experience, and finished IOE in about a month. It could have been 3 weeks but my FAA ride got reschedule. I only had about 5 days between ground training and sim training and then like 6 days before my first flight. Honestly I haven’t found anything to complain about here so far. Don’t pay too much attention to all the bad comments here.
11-29-2022, 04:08 PM
#20
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2021
Posts: 376
I’m not sure how it is lately for DEC’s, but for new hire FO’s, the training footprint has consistently had a pretty large gap in between training phases. My class had about 2 months off between ground and sims, and another 2 months off between sims and IOE. Based on what I’ve been hearing from people going through sims now, they have changed that substantially. Now people are only off for about a week or 2 tops it seems.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
