Gulstream Academy/ Continental Express?
11-12-2005, 12:51 AM
#51
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2005
Position: Office Chair
Posts: 635
Originally Posted by SkyHigh
If you can buy a job...then you should by all means do it.
SkyHigh
SkyHigh
11-13-2005, 08:33 AM
#52
New Hire
Joined APC: Sep 2005
Position: 737, AMR Cost Unit
Posts: 7
Originally Posted by IronWalt
Gulfstream was originally founded and staffed by EASTERN SCABS. Need we say more???? Stay away!!!!
11-29-2005, 12:47 PM
#53
Guest
Posts: n/a
You're all wrong
As a recruiter for a fairly large airline I can only tell you that PFT has absolutely NOTHING to do with our pilot hiring criteria. Maybe years ago that was a factor but in today's competitive market, to properly staff our airline, we don't care whether or not someone has paid for their training, we strictly take the best possible pilots. After all, everyone pays for training to some extent , whatever the industry. As for me, I would rather hire a pilot with 121 twin turbine experience than a CFI with 3 times the amount of TT. I have hired many former Gulfstream pilots and have found them to be well skilled, very few don't make it in the industry. I'm not sure $30K isn't a worthy price of getting you in front of my desk 3 years earlier than you normally would???? Good luck either way.
12-02-2005, 07:01 PM
#54
Guest
Posts: n/a
?? for PilotRecruiter
PilotRecruiter
Which airline do you recruit for?? As a recruiter, what are you looking for in your applicants? Sorry about the nosey questions, its just Im looking to get started here finishing my commercial/multi and am not sure whether to continue on to instructing or try a "direct" program like Gulfstream or FlightSafety. Your thoughts??
I'd PM you but Im not able to yet...
Which airline do you recruit for?? As a recruiter, what are you looking for in your applicants? Sorry about the nosey questions, its just Im looking to get started here finishing my commercial/multi and am not sure whether to continue on to instructing or try a "direct" program like Gulfstream or FlightSafety. Your thoughts??
I'd PM you but Im not able to yet...
12-04-2005, 11:05 AM
#55
Line Holder
Joined APC: Dec 2005
Position: CL-65
Posts: 44
The following is for the Gulfstream CAPT. who thinks their program is not PFT. I copied and pasted below as posted on Gulfstreams own website. It IS PFT. Even Gulfstream seems to thinks so...
Hours Areas of Training
80 Ground School Airline Indoctrination And Operations
40 CRM (Crew Resource Management) and Airline Briefing
80 Ground School Beech 1900D Systems Integration
32 Frasca 242 Beech 1900D Turboprop Simulator Training
4 Beech 1900D Aircraft Static Session And EFIS Training
28 Full Flight Simulator Level-D Beech 1900D Flight Training
8 Airline Line Observation Jump Seat Flights Beech 1900D
250 Flying Line As Part-121 Paid First Officer At GIA In Beech 1900D
Total Hours Of Training Including 318 Hours OF Turboprop Flight Training
First Officer Program Price $29,684*
*After receiving $2,000 in flight pay, program cost is just $27,684.
It is a cheap way for a small outfit like Gulfstream to be profitable. With this program, they don't have to hire fully paid FO employees and thus saving $. All they have to do is hire captains.
In times when they do not have enough students ready to start the program, they offer permanent employment to the FO that went through their training program. In times when they have plenty of students for their program, you're SOL as you won't get an offer for employment.
You see, Gulfstream doesn't have to pay a 2 person crew with this program. The ONLY person that is employed is the Capt.
As long as pilots wh*re them selves out and either fly for free or pay to fly, regional airline pay will never go up. So when you are done with this program, you just $crewed your own self as well as others in the industry with low pay.
Hours Areas of Training
80 Ground School Airline Indoctrination And Operations
40 CRM (Crew Resource Management) and Airline Briefing
80 Ground School Beech 1900D Systems Integration
32 Frasca 242 Beech 1900D Turboprop Simulator Training
4 Beech 1900D Aircraft Static Session And EFIS Training
28 Full Flight Simulator Level-D Beech 1900D Flight Training
8 Airline Line Observation Jump Seat Flights Beech 1900D
250 Flying Line As Part-121 Paid First Officer At GIA In Beech 1900D
Total Hours Of Training Including 318 Hours OF Turboprop Flight Training
First Officer Program Price $29,684*
*After receiving $2,000 in flight pay, program cost is just $27,684.
It is a cheap way for a small outfit like Gulfstream to be profitable. With this program, they don't have to hire fully paid FO employees and thus saving $. All they have to do is hire captains.
In times when they do not have enough students ready to start the program, they offer permanent employment to the FO that went through their training program. In times when they have plenty of students for their program, you're SOL as you won't get an offer for employment.
You see, Gulfstream doesn't have to pay a 2 person crew with this program. The ONLY person that is employed is the Capt.
As long as pilots wh*re them selves out and either fly for free or pay to fly, regional airline pay will never go up. So when you are done with this program, you just $crewed your own self as well as others in the industry with low pay.
12-04-2005, 11:24 AM
#56
Line Holder
Joined APC: Dec 2005
Position: CL-65
Posts: 44
Tell me, in which other industry do you pay for your own training after you have already paid for a 4 year college degree + the money needed to get all your certificates and ratings (close to $100K or more)?
I guess we all love flying so much that we are willing to do the above and in addition pay an airline for training or pay for our own type ratings etc.
Crazy Stupid, but ouw OWN fault as a community of professional pilots.
Flight Instructors were in the same boat a few years ago. But organizations like AOPA and NAFI educated instructors and told them they were pro's and as such needed to charge for their services.
It is not uncommon for a CFI nowaday's to charge and keep $25 or more per hour (ground and flight). After all, a Golf pro who has never gone to school to get a degree etc, charges $50 or more per hour. A plumber charges $100 or more per hour!!!
Till a few months ago, I was a manager for a cleaning company at the CLT airport. We employed over 160 people and worked 24/7/365. We paid + provided full benifits to our cleaners that cleaned toilets etc more than most FO's that would litteraly spit at them while working.
So next time when you see a black or latino airport cleaner on your layover or walk to your gate and are so full of your self that you feel the need to spit at them, remember that the guy or girl makes a LOT more $ than you do.
I am trying to get back into this industry after the 9-11 after shocks forced me out. But I can tell you that I'll not do that by wh*ring my self out and you shouldn't either!
I guess we all love flying so much that we are willing to do the above and in addition pay an airline for training or pay for our own type ratings etc.
Crazy Stupid, but ouw OWN fault as a community of professional pilots.
Flight Instructors were in the same boat a few years ago. But organizations like AOPA and NAFI educated instructors and told them they were pro's and as such needed to charge for their services.
It is not uncommon for a CFI nowaday's to charge and keep $25 or more per hour (ground and flight). After all, a Golf pro who has never gone to school to get a degree etc, charges $50 or more per hour. A plumber charges $100 or more per hour!!!
Till a few months ago, I was a manager for a cleaning company at the CLT airport. We employed over 160 people and worked 24/7/365. We paid + provided full benifits to our cleaners that cleaned toilets etc more than most FO's that would litteraly spit at them while working.
So next time when you see a black or latino airport cleaner on your layover or walk to your gate and are so full of your self that you feel the need to spit at them, remember that the guy or girl makes a LOT more $ than you do.
I am trying to get back into this industry after the 9-11 after shocks forced me out. But I can tell you that I'll not do that by wh*ring my self out and you shouldn't either!
12-04-2005, 11:38 AM
#57
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,242
nicely put...
The problem with pilots is they think they are special. Management knows differently and takes advantage of them...
...I'd rather retire and wear jeans and a polo flying night freight - sounds more fun than babysitting an autopilot...
Am I wrong??
-LA
The problem with pilots is they think they are special. Management knows differently and takes advantage of them...
...I'd rather retire and wear jeans and a polo flying night freight - sounds more fun than babysitting an autopilot...
Am I wrong??
-LA
12-04-2005, 12:14 PM
#58
Line Holder
Joined APC: Dec 2005
Position: CL-65
Posts: 44
I don't think you're wrong LA IF things stay they way they are, unless WE as a group (not as group belonging to a cetrain company) force a change.
Nick, if you like flying so much that you are willing to pay a company to fly, do your self and others this favor; if you have $30K to pi$$ away, pick up a current issue of Trade-A-Plane and buy your self a C152. You can fly it as much as you want, put it on lease back with your local flight school and/or instruct in it your self and actually MAKE some $ by charging for your SERVICES and built time.
Nick, if you like flying so much that you are willing to pay a company to fly, do your self and others this favor; if you have $30K to pi$$ away, pick up a current issue of Trade-A-Plane and buy your self a C152. You can fly it as much as you want, put it on lease back with your local flight school and/or instruct in it your self and actually MAKE some $ by charging for your SERVICES and built time.
12-05-2005, 06:46 AM
#60
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2005
Position: Straight outta LoCash
Posts: 176
1013dot25hPa wrote:
"Tell me, in which other industry do you pay for your own training after you have already paid for a 4 year college degree"
Errr, Medicine?
In fact, aren't residents still paying tuition (usually through loans) while getting paid some measly stipend? That's basically what GIA does, isn't it? Granted, you have to be a resident before becoming a doctor...or does that just mean that what is referred to as "PFT" is acceptable in medicine?
Maybe what we call PFT should be PFJ: Pay For Job. Many professions require you to pay to get some kind of training to be employable. A&P, Dispatchers, ASE auto mechanics. Heck, I paid for my MCSE which directly got me my IT job.
Now if I had stroked GE a check for 8K and they paid me 2K for 3 mos. of work with no guarantee of long term employment, that would be a whole different ball game.
Side note: I asked a buddy of mine that flies for Chautauqua about PFT. He said that traditionally PFT meant you had to pay for training in an aircraft in order to be and remain employed at an airline (not sure if he meant type ratings or not). That sounds familiar....
"Tell me, in which other industry do you pay for your own training after you have already paid for a 4 year college degree"
Errr, Medicine?
In fact, aren't residents still paying tuition (usually through loans) while getting paid some measly stipend? That's basically what GIA does, isn't it? Granted, you have to be a resident before becoming a doctor...or does that just mean that what is referred to as "PFT" is acceptable in medicine?
Maybe what we call PFT should be PFJ: Pay For Job. Many professions require you to pay to get some kind of training to be employable. A&P, Dispatchers, ASE auto mechanics. Heck, I paid for my MCSE which directly got me my IT job.
Now if I had stroked GE a check for 8K and they paid me 2K for 3 mos. of work with no guarantee of long term employment, that would be a whole different ball game.
Side note: I asked a buddy of mine that flies for Chautauqua about PFT. He said that traditionally PFT meant you had to pay for training in an aircraft in order to be and remain employed at an airline (not sure if he meant type ratings or not). That sounds familiar....
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