jonnyjetprop

I'm new to the APC forums, but I've got to jump in on this one.

1. I think that some are confusing Gulstream Academy with Gulfstream International Airways. I had a friend who flew captain in a shorts and a 1900 and never paid a dime.

2. Pay per view training is bringing down the industry? I guess it doesn't have a thing to do with high fuel prices, an internet distribution system that makes it hard to make a buck, a bankruptcy system that allows unfair competition.

3. Isn't college paying for training

4. SWA requires pay per view and no one seems to mind

5. I guess I'm guilty of bringing the profession to its knees. I paid for my inital pilot training (ie: PVT, INST, COMM, CFI,CFII, CFMEI) What about those welfare pilots who had the government pay for their training (military)

What I'm homurously trying to say is that in one way or another, we all paid for our training. You have to ask yourself, is it worth the investment?

jonnyjetprop

Nick, your asking a serious question, so you deserve a serious answer.

It depends. Are you willing to pay $30k and not get a job? It may work out, it may not. What is the near term future for the regionals? Bad. Do some research and it looks like almost 200 RJ's will be parked in the desert. I got this from the Boyd Group report, not some thread on some forum. Just like any investment you'll make, past performance doesn't guarentee future results. Were the lastest grads picked up? Are they happy with the program. Will GAA give you the names and numbers of resent grads to check up on them.

You are making an investment in yourself. Treat it like any other investment.

Good luck.

XtremeF150

Hey there

I just wanted to say that yes we all paid for the initial training with the exception of the military guys (They actually pay an even higher price but thats another story). Nobody said it was bad to pay to get an education. However, once you have recieved a commercial pilots certificate you can now recieve payment for your services.

At this point if you fly for FREE or even worse PAY!! to fly then you are aiding the management in bringing down the salaries of everyone. I know youve heard this before but This guy probably hasn't so.

Oh and SWA is in a somewhat different boat because evryone is held to the same. Its not like I had rich parents that gave me a DC-10 type and I came and took your job for 75% of your pay and left you on the street.

Just some clarification for the newer guy.

XtremeF150

jonnyjetprop

Maybe I'm slow, but I just don't get it. Everyone paid for their training. Some chose to go to the military. It seems like a great deal. Great training, good pay while getting that training and the ability to jump direct to a major. Others went the civil route. Long hours of instructing, flying night freight and air ambulance work at poverty wages. All this to fly for a commuter (that's what we used to call ourselves) airline for five years. Then I got to fly jets. In other words, I traded 8 years at low pay jobs for a chance. But if I had paid for training (it was not around then) then I'd have several more years at the show. Lets see. 30k paid up front for three years at 150k. It sounds good to me.

Now before I get atacked for advocating pay per view training, I don't. The problem is that we could have stopped this by contract, but the unions didn't push for this. When you say that pay per view has lowered wages, show me where. Give me an example.

I don't give SW pilots a pass on this one. You still have to by a type to get in. They just believe that it was worth the investment. Heck, I'd do the same. And they still have an option to bargin the requirement out of their contract and haven't.

The last point is that everyone is envyous of the guy with the rich daddy. Aviation and life are not fair. How many pilots got to a major because of family contacts,sex, the color of their skin or the ability to have uncle sam underwrite their training.

I stand by the advise I gave.

CRJason

Paying for advanced training is morally wrong!!!! DON'T DO IT...YOU ARE RUINING THIS BUSINESS!!!!!!!

de727ups

Wow. Page 14. K...this is how it is....

PFJ is what Gulfstream is. You are paying for the right to sit in the right seat of a 121 aircraft operating as a Continental codeshare. This is bad, and lowers career expectations, because it takes what normally would be an entry level job and makes it something you have to pay for. If this sort of thing continues, you'll be paying for the chance to build time in a Delta 737. It's bad for the industry while it can be good for the individual. Nobody can argue that it's a good thing when pilots pay for a job. How does it make sense for the good of the industry?

Before you consider the FSA program as an alternative to the CFI route, remember than you are signing on at ONE airline at VERY low time. It's sick that any airline considers a 250 hour pilot as qualified to be a flight crewmember on a 121 jet, but I digress...

When you sign on to work at one of the FSA airlines, remember you are looking at TSA, which is really Gojets, an alter ego carrier designed to defeat a pilot group. ASA, which just got bought out by Skywest, another regional with a large, nonunion, pilot group, Xjet, which just announced they might lose 25% of their flying, or Eagle, which has very long upgrades. Go into it understanding that your route isn't a sure thing unlike having a CFI background with good experience and qualifications, which gives you options.

In closing, I find it interesting that those who are in favor of PFJ and direct entry programs are low timers who are new to the industry. The guys that hate it the most are guys who have been around a while and see it for what it is. How do you explain that?

coopez

Dont cheat your self or others. Be patient, you will learn that the quick way will hurt you later on. Do you think that you can fail a checkride after paying 30K. this will develop very bad habits. Also, how can others bargain for higher wages when people will pay for a job. The sooner that you realize that pilots are professional, and that it is what we do to provide for our families, the better off you will be. I know they tell you that you will be able to get a job, but the reality is very few pilots are really ready at 600 hrs.

Kill Bill

yeah, right. there's a HUGE difference in being under-employed, MAKING $20.00 an hour to flight instruct, and PAYING $20.00 an hour to someone to sit in their airplane flying passengers around. the fact that you, and many, many others, fail to recognize the difference is what has helped destroy this profession. and, no, i don't have a government study to prove what i'm saying is true.

Pilotpip

You don't need a government study Bill. Just look at who's hiring, and who isn't. The lower end regionals are even starting to eat up the ones that you could actually make a living at.

moleary26

can u tell me more about the school. i am starting their in march