chazbird

The average burn through time, resulting in the loss of the aircraft (loss of control) on a part 25 aircraft is 17 minutes. Many fire procedures checklists take 20 or minutes to run and complete (At the time the MD11 Swiss Air 211 took 37 minutes to run and presumably complete)....so let's not land and run a no-flap checklist? Maybe this instructor just needs to get X number of procedures done during training but presenting those sort of compound failures is not real learning, it trains you procedures, not learning to make a real decision. (As a matter of fact if this happened to me, in a sim or in a airplane, after a fire, whether its out or not, and the flaps don't operate, then I'd think that maybe the fire had somehow affected the electrics/hydraulics of the flaps, too Multiple failures during a fire is a almost for sure sign you're about to be a roman candle). By the way, the captain of the pictured FEDEX DC-10 had a serious fire on a C-130 he once flew, do doubt influencing his expedient diversion and arrival.

ClutchCargo

Maybe he think's you're Navy? (My Dad was a CPO).

plasticpi

The memory items are only any good if the flaps are split...

I suppose we could have grabbed the MI out of that checklist, but I bet anything that would not have been acceptable to my sim insructor. He wouldn't like that we didn't run the checklist, and, while it's not a long checklist, running it while flying the final approach just seems unwise to me.

We had a 9000 foot runway, If this were an actual event, I would have just flown the approach at 160, slowed to about 140 over the fence and landed.

Chris99

What are the chances three separate fires have started on this airplane? Not very good. That means the first fire is spreading and you only have a limited time of controlled flight left. You should have already dispensed the other bottle because there is still smoke (as someone already said in this post, smoke=fire). In addition, your fire detection loop is also susceptible to burn through, so you might not have an indication in the cockpit that the fire is still burning. Who cares if the pylon is designed to fall off, the fire has already spread to the fuselage.

Something else to consider: does the oxygen system on the airplane provide undiluted oxygen to the passengers or is it mixed with ambient air? If it's the latter, they need to don an EPOS or some other self-contained breathing device in order to not breathe in the smoke. These devices seldom last more than 15 minutes. Now you have passengers passing out and dying in the back while you are going around single engine (possibly at night, in the weather, at an unfamiliar field, crosswinds, the list could go on) and getting vectored around for another approach. If you even make the runway on the second approach, you still might not have any flaps and still will have to slow down, stop, and emergency egress (with a chance of less available systems at your disposal due to the fire). At this point, the smoke in the cabin might be so thick that noone can see to get out. Not to mention that the PBDs have possibly run out of oxygen and people are in a panic to get out of a burning airplane while breathing in smoke. Who is going to carry out the pax that have already passed out or need special assistance (if you can even see them through the smoke). Hopefully the fire department will be able to help, but the plane might already be engulfed in flames and now you have risked even more lives...

There are just too many unknown variables to keep that airplane flying unnecessarily.

MudPupppy

I take it your flying the Saab. As a new hire, in the simulator, in that situation you describe, you are better off running the checklist and asking for vectors under the following circumstances:
Fires are believed to be out with no other indications to say otherwise
You are prior to the FAF

If you don't run the checklist and the flaps don't work when selected at 15, you may have a hydraulic issue not just a flap issue which will just lead you down that proverbial road.

In the real world however, the airplane flies just fine without flaps, being the professional pilot you already know how much to increase Ref for landing without flaps from knowing your aircraft. Your passengers are probably choking/dieing, and under no circumstances is 9000 too short for a Saab. Get on the ground.

bobloblaw

You're at the FAF inbound, are smoking as though there may be a fire, and now your flaps malfuntion too. We land and after we get out of the plane we can discuss what we could have done differently. The key is that you are still alive to discuss it and all passengers are off the aircraft. This is a win win situation.