Airlines requiring part 117 extensions
07-29-2019, 12:15 PM
#71
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2009
Posts: 2,285
I'm assuming your being serious and not being facetious...
We were talking about anticipating delays and 117 extensions - not whether it was legal to depart or not. To answer your question directly if you are leaving and arriving within the same hour then the METAR is controlling (this is the Regional sub forum...).
To further the anticipating delays discussion - we have synoptic discussions, Satellite, IR, Radar, Constant Pressure charts, SFC plots, Skew-T, etc, etc.
We were talking about anticipating delays and 117 extensions - not whether it was legal to depart or not. To answer your question directly if you are leaving and arriving within the same hour then the METAR is controlling (this is the Regional sub forum...).
To further the anticipating delays discussion - we have synoptic discussions, Satellite, IR, Radar, Constant Pressure charts, SFC plots, Skew-T, etc, etc.
If you’re going to argue that “unforeseen circumstances” weren’t unforeseen because charts showed this WX was forecast then I think you will lose that every time. Circumstance had to have been known in time for a schedule change to avoid. Schedules come out the month prior.
In short, WX, MECH, ATC, you can be extended, you may opt out, your options for that vary with airlines.
07-30-2019, 05:29 PM
#72
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Joined APC: Sep 2016
Posts: 189
Found it, thanks to the guy that posted the site with the legal interpretations.
https://www.faa.gov/about/office_org/headquarters_offices/agc/practice_areas/regulations/interpretations/Data/interps/2014/Yu-Southwest%20Airlines%20Pilots%20Assoc%20-%20(2014)%20Legal%20Interpretation.pdf
It says it all right there about "automatic extensions." I was talking to my CA during my trip here at PSA, and it is a common belief that extensions are automatic here. Absolutely not true and here's the document that says as much. Spread the good word.
https://www.faa.gov/about/office_org/headquarters_offices/agc/practice_areas/regulations/interpretations/Data/interps/2014/Yu-Southwest%20Airlines%20Pilots%20Assoc%20-%20(2014)%20Legal%20Interpretation.pdf
It says it all right there about "automatic extensions." I was talking to my CA during my trip here at PSA, and it is a common belief that extensions are automatic here. Absolutely not true and here's the document that says as much. Spread the good word.
08-08-2019, 12:37 PM
#73
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2018
Posts: 2,337
Found it, thanks to the guy that posted the site with the legal interpretations.
https://www.faa.gov/about/office_org/headquarters_offices/agc/practice_areas/regulations/interpretations/Data/interps/2014/Yu-Southwest%20Airlines%20Pilots%20Assoc%20-%20(2014)%20Legal%20Interpretation.pdf
It says it all right there about "automatic extensions." I was talking to my CA during my trip here at PSA, and it is a common belief that extensions are automatic here. Absolutely not true and here's the document that says as much. Spread the good word.
https://www.faa.gov/about/office_org/headquarters_offices/agc/practice_areas/regulations/interpretations/Data/interps/2014/Yu-Southwest%20Airlines%20Pilots%20Assoc%20-%20(2014)%20Legal%20Interpretation.pdf
It says it all right there about "automatic extensions." I was talking to my CA during my trip here at PSA, and it is a common belief that extensions are automatic here. Absolutely not true and here's the document that says as much. Spread the good word.
08-08-2019, 12:53 PM
#74
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Joined APC: Jul 2018
Posts: 449
That being said the only way to not accept the extension without talking to a chief is to call fatigued which is a pretty simple and painless process in my experience.
08-08-2019, 01:07 PM
#75
Prime Minister/Moderator
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: Engines Turn Or People Swim
Posts: 40,108
Yeah the 30 minute extension is automatic and holds no caveats, longer than 30 minutes and they will contact the pic to see if they'll accept the extension. My experience with PSA is that they usually only check with the Captain then assume the rest of the crew falls in with his or her decision.
That being said the only way to not accept the extension without talking to a chief is to call fatigued which is a pretty simple and painless process in my experience.
That being said the only way to not accept the extension without talking to a chief is to call fatigued which is a pretty simple and painless process in my experience.
08-08-2019, 03:01 PM
#76
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Joined APC: Feb 2014
Position: Semi-Retired...
Posts: 3,230
No, it does not. It specifically says the concurrence may not be prospective. The only time a 117 duty time signature on the release may be used for the 30 minute extension is when the need for the extension is known at the time of signature.
08-08-2019, 03:03 PM
#77
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Joined APC: Feb 2014
Position: Semi-Retired...
Posts: 3,230
Found it, thanks to the guy that posted the site with the legal interpretations.
https://www.faa.gov/about/office_org...rpretation.pdf
It says it all right there about "automatic extensions." I was talking to my CA during my trip here at PSA, and it is a common belief that extensions are automatic here. Absolutely not true and here's the document that says as much. Spread the good word.
https://www.faa.gov/about/office_org...rpretation.pdf
It says it all right there about "automatic extensions." I was talking to my CA during my trip here at PSA, and it is a common belief that extensions are automatic here. Absolutely not true and here's the document that says as much. Spread the good word.
08-08-2019, 03:04 PM
#78
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2014
Position: Semi-Retired...
Posts: 3,230
Yeah the 30 minute extension is automatic and holds no caveats, longer than 30 minutes and they will contact the pic to see if they'll accept the extension. My experience with PSA is that they usually only check with the Captain then assume the rest of the crew falls in with his or her decision.
That being said the only way to not accept the extension without talking to a chief is to call fatigued which is a pretty simple and painless process in my experience.
That being said the only way to not accept the extension without talking to a chief is to call fatigued which is a pretty simple and painless process in my experience.
08-08-2019, 04:02 PM
#79
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Joined APC: Jun 2019
Position: Poolside
Posts: 545
Then your FOM needs to go back to the POI with a copy of the interpretation attached. 14 CFR 121.135(a)(4) says the manual may “not be contrary to any applicable Federal regulation...”
08-08-2019, 05:56 PM
#80
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2016
Posts: 1,955
The real question is, who is the brave soul that’s going to risk their career over it?
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