Ideal prep/quals for 121 regionals
07-23-2019, 02:02 AM
#42
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Oct 2016
Posts: 385
Thanks a lot and, frankly, I have a tendency to overthink things at times so this may well be one of them if that’s your first feedback. My desire to learn/understand can be helpful...except for when it’s a complete PITA that leads me in circles...
No one wants to go through a lateral move between regionals - reminds of the time I heard a guy jokingly tell his wife she was the “best first wife a guy could ever have” & I about spit up laughing - so 135 on similar equipment seems like an important piece of preparation. I want to put a base under myself that would allow me to do the exact opposite of spending a career in one/minimal types - change is the only constant so I want to be prepared to quickly learn & be a contributor (not a training headache) on any equipment that the winds blow me toward.
What you said about 135 in a similar type as great prep for 121 Initial makes all the sense in the world. With this in mind, why do most (all?) regionals seem to value those with a CFI background over folks who have flown 135 (or other similar ‘real-world’/risk management centric flying)? All the regional cadet programs (except Mesa whose cadet program includes an option to fly 135) either target or are exclusively for CFI’s - why don’t the regionals put that same focus & opportunity out there to folks flying 135 single-pilot multi-engine night IFR? Seems like AMF’s pilot group should be getting more opportunities at regionals than R-ATP CFI’s...but that’s not the case for some reason.
I’m grateful for your help!
No one wants to go through a lateral move between regionals - reminds of the time I heard a guy jokingly tell his wife she was the “best first wife a guy could ever have” & I about spit up laughing - so 135 on similar equipment seems like an important piece of preparation. I want to put a base under myself that would allow me to do the exact opposite of spending a career in one/minimal types - change is the only constant so I want to be prepared to quickly learn & be a contributor (not a training headache) on any equipment that the winds blow me toward.
What you said about 135 in a similar type as great prep for 121 Initial makes all the sense in the world. With this in mind, why do most (all?) regionals seem to value those with a CFI background over folks who have flown 135 (or other similar ‘real-world’/risk management centric flying)? All the regional cadet programs (except Mesa whose cadet program includes an option to fly 135) either target or are exclusively for CFI’s - why don’t the regionals put that same focus & opportunity out there to folks flying 135 single-pilot multi-engine night IFR? Seems like AMF’s pilot group should be getting more opportunities at regionals than R-ATP CFI’s...but that’s not the case for some reason.
I’m grateful for your help!
Don't over think it.
The best prep would be complete training on the same type at another regional.
Next would be 135 in similar equipment
But if you already have ATP mins, it's not going to be worth a career excursion to be "better prepared" for a regional. Unless you suck as a pilot and struggle with training events. In that case you can buy sim training in a specific RJ to improve your odds. Obviously in that case you'd want to stay on that jet for the rest of your career.
The best prep would be complete training on the same type at another regional.
Next would be 135 in similar equipment
But if you already have ATP mins, it's not going to be worth a career excursion to be "better prepared" for a regional. Unless you suck as a pilot and struggle with training events. In that case you can buy sim training in a specific RJ to improve your odds. Obviously in that case you'd want to stay on that jet for the rest of your career.
07-23-2019, 02:12 AM
#43
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Oct 2016
Posts: 385
It seems like you understand my goal perfectly and TW endorsement, aerobatics/upset recovery, glider time (it’s cheap, too), Mooney time and PCATD use are great ideas.
Many, many thanks - again, you seemed to perfectly smell what I was stepping in when I asked this question. The goal isn’t to weasel my way into positions or equipment or other similar careerist goals before I should, but instead it’s to be well-prepared for as much as possible.
Many, many thanks - again, you seemed to perfectly smell what I was stepping in when I asked this question. The goal isn’t to weasel my way into positions or equipment or other similar careerist goals before I should, but instead it’s to be well-prepared for as much as possible.
Yeah, the noisy posters are correct. You can just check the block and make it at a regional by just breathing. But if you want to actually be a good pilot who can adjust to different environments this is a good start.
I would also add, get a variety of aviation experience. Get a TW endorsement. Get some aerobatics and upset recovery training, even if it's in a Super Decathlon. Nothing like doing a loop to teach you about angle-of-attack.
Learn to land on the centerline, where you want the airplane to land every time. Not just somewhere on the runway.
Get some glider training.
Learn to fly a Mooney, preferably one with speed brakes, from a Mooney instructor who teaches you to land on speed, not 90 knots.
Find a PCATD. Yeah, it's kind of clunky, but they force you to fly instruments with a light control touch.
Can you be a successful airline pilot without doing these things? Of course you can. 99.999% of the time airline flights are kind of routine. But try to add to that backpack of knowledge so if the day does come when the .001% occurs you can handle it.
I would also add, get a variety of aviation experience. Get a TW endorsement. Get some aerobatics and upset recovery training, even if it's in a Super Decathlon. Nothing like doing a loop to teach you about angle-of-attack.
Learn to land on the centerline, where you want the airplane to land every time. Not just somewhere on the runway.
Get some glider training.
Learn to fly a Mooney, preferably one with speed brakes, from a Mooney instructor who teaches you to land on speed, not 90 knots.
Find a PCATD. Yeah, it's kind of clunky, but they force you to fly instruments with a light control touch.
Can you be a successful airline pilot without doing these things? Of course you can. 99.999% of the time airline flights are kind of routine. But try to add to that backpack of knowledge so if the day does come when the .001% occurs you can handle it.
07-23-2019, 02:15 AM
#44
Gets Weekends Off
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Joined APC: Oct 2016
Posts: 385
Clearly it doesn’t in the real world (it’s easy to get complacent), but it almost seems like this should go without saying. Thanks a lot for sharing all this!
I’d recommend actually learning along the way....be the best CFI and teacher you can be, instead of sitting there building hours....same for flying freight, or initial SIC job on a multi-pilot airplane.....too many people sit there and occupy the seat without learning the job.
The regional I was at years ago had a long upgrade time, and all of a sudden the floodgates opened....they Instituted a quick upgrade program for FOs with thousands of hrs in the same equipment.....the failure rate was astronomical. The pilots had been on the plane for 6-7 years and couldn’t fly a 2 engine ILS to a published missed. decision making, knowledge of the Flight Manual, MEL procedures were all terrible.....they had to re-work the upgrade program to provide enough time to spin people up to the level they should have been operating at already. Some had no problems, because they’d been actively involved all along, but others were just time building.
The regional I was at years ago had a long upgrade time, and all of a sudden the floodgates opened....they Instituted a quick upgrade program for FOs with thousands of hrs in the same equipment.....the failure rate was astronomical. The pilots had been on the plane for 6-7 years and couldn’t fly a 2 engine ILS to a published missed. decision making, knowledge of the Flight Manual, MEL procedures were all terrible.....they had to re-work the upgrade program to provide enough time to spin people up to the level they should have been operating at already. Some had no problems, because they’d been actively involved all along, but others were just time building.
07-23-2019, 06:45 AM
#45
Prime Minister/Moderator
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: Engines Turn Or People Swim
Posts: 40,108
What you said about 135 in a similar type as great prep for 121 Initial makes all the sense in the world. With this in mind, why do most (all?) regionals seem to value those with a CFI background over folks who have flown 135 (or other similar ‘real-world’/risk management centric flying)? All the regional cadet programs (except Mesa whose cadet program includes an option to fly 135) either target or are exclusively for CFI’s - why don’t the regionals put that same focus & opportunity out there to folks flying 135 single-pilot multi-engine night IFR? Seems like AMF’s pilot group should be getting more opportunities at regionals than R-ATP CFI’s...but that’s not the case for some reason.
135 operators have no interest or incentive (quite the opposite in fact) to enable their pilots to leave for a regional.
Also 135 ops are mostly small, hard to track them all down to reach out to their pilots, especially if they don't want you to.
Flight schools (while maybe hurting for CFI's) are in the business of pushing pilots up the ladder. So it's in their interest to establish relationships with airlines and help their students (and CFI's) move on.
But any 135 pilot can easily get hired at almost any regional if they want to. And they will chose it for specific reasons (domiciles, upgrade, pay), not a cadet program.
07-26-2019, 08:03 PM
#47
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Oct 2016
Posts: 385
Thanks a lot - great points about it being tough to leave a 135 at ATP mins for 121 and the fact that cadet programs really serve no purpose for anyone leaving 135 for 121 because they’re more than qualified for 121 FO by that point & potentially even qualified for 121 DEC/near DEC CA.
Access I would guess.
135 operators have no interest or incentive (quite the opposite in fact) to enable their pilots to leave for a regional.
Also 135 ops are mostly small, hard to track them all down to reach out to their pilots, especially if they don't want you to.
Flight schools (while maybe hurting for CFI's) are in the business of pushing pilots up the ladder. So it's in their interest to establish relationships with airlines and help their students (and CFI's) move on.
But any 135 pilot can easily get hired at almost any regional if they want to. And they will chose it for specific reasons (domiciles, upgrade, pay), not a cadet program.
135 operators have no interest or incentive (quite the opposite in fact) to enable their pilots to leave for a regional.
Also 135 ops are mostly small, hard to track them all down to reach out to their pilots, especially if they don't want you to.
Flight schools (while maybe hurting for CFI's) are in the business of pushing pilots up the ladder. So it's in their interest to establish relationships with airlines and help their students (and CFI's) move on.
But any 135 pilot can easily get hired at almost any regional if they want to. And they will chose it for specific reasons (domiciles, upgrade, pay), not a cadet program.
07-27-2019, 02:56 AM
#48
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2015
Posts: 2,529
Thanks a lot - great points about it being tough to leave a 135 at ATP mins for 121 and the fact that cadet programs really serve no purpose for anyone leaving 135 for 121 because they’re more than qualified for 121 FO by that point & potentially even qualified for 121 DEC/near DEC CA.
Seniority is key, it really doesn’t do good to be losing months of seniority at a regional because your at a 135 who has a 15-18 month training contract.
07-27-2019, 05:24 AM
#49
All is fine at .79
Joined APC: Sep 2016
Position: Paahlot
Posts: 4,216
I’d recommend actually learning along the way....be the best CFI and teacher you can be, instead of sitting there building hours....same for flying freight, or initial SIC job on a multi-pilot airplane.....too many people sit there and occupy the seat without learning the job.
The regional I was at years ago had a long upgrade time, and all of a sudden the floodgates opened....they Instituted a quick upgrade program for FOs with thousands of hrs in the same equipment.....the failure rate was astronomical. The pilots had been on the plane for 6-7 years and couldn’t fly a 2 engine ILS to a published missed. decision making, knowledge of the Flight Manual, MEL procedures were all terrible.....they had to re-work the upgrade program to provide enough time to spin people up to the level they should have been operating at already. Some had no problems, because they’d been actively involved all along, but others were just time building.
The regional I was at years ago had a long upgrade time, and all of a sudden the floodgates opened....they Instituted a quick upgrade program for FOs with thousands of hrs in the same equipment.....the failure rate was astronomical. The pilots had been on the plane for 6-7 years and couldn’t fly a 2 engine ILS to a published missed. decision making, knowledge of the Flight Manual, MEL procedures were all terrible.....they had to re-work the upgrade program to provide enough time to spin people up to the level they should have been operating at already. Some had no problems, because they’d been actively involved all along, but others were just time building.
I’ve encountered people that just zone out the moment they hit the right seat.
Voice activated from that point on.
Don’t be that guy.
07-28-2019, 09:45 AM
#50
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2017
Posts: 570
Haven't read the responses, but my advice for 121 training is show up with a good attitude, ready to study every day after leaving the classroom, and with your personal affairs in order (minimal distractions). Do that and you should be fine.
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