Ideal prep/quals for 121 regionals
07-21-2019, 06:54 AM
#31
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,888
If you built your time using the CFI route, make sure your personal currency is where it should be. Airlines will teach you everything you need to know. They expect you to be instrument current and proficient. If you are struggling to fly at an ATP level in your current aircraft, you’ll struggle in simulator training.
I tell instructors to grab another instructor and go fly. Borrow or rent a plane. Fly at night under the hood or actual IMC. Fly IFR to an airport more than 50 miles away. Shoot 3 IFR approaches including a full procedure to 2 missed approaches and holding and then land out of the last approach. Switch seats and do the same on the way back to your home base. If you will do this once every month or two, you’ll be far sharper than most coming into initial training.
I tell instructors to grab another instructor and go fly. Borrow or rent a plane. Fly at night under the hood or actual IMC. Fly IFR to an airport more than 50 miles away. Shoot 3 IFR approaches including a full procedure to 2 missed approaches and holding and then land out of the last approach. Switch seats and do the same on the way back to your home base. If you will do this once every month or two, you’ll be far sharper than most coming into initial training.
I would also add, get a variety of aviation experience. Get a TW endorsement. Get some aerobatics and upset recovery training, even if it's in a Super Decathlon. Nothing like doing a loop to teach you about angle-of-attack.
Learn to land on the centerline, where you want the airplane to land every time. Not just somewhere on the runway.
Get some glider training.
Learn to fly a Mooney, preferably one with speed brakes, from a Mooney instructor who teaches you to land on speed, not 90 knots.
Find a PCATD. Yeah, it's kind of clunky, but they force you to fly instruments with a light control touch.
Can you be a successful airline pilot without doing these things? Of course you can. 99.999% of the time airline flights are kind of routine. But try to add to that backpack of knowledge so if the day does come when the .001% occurs you can handle it.
07-21-2019, 07:09 AM
#32
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2014
Position: B787 FO
Posts: 298
I’d recommend actually learning along the way....be the best CFI and teacher you can be, instead of sitting there building hours....same for flying freight, or initial SIC job on a multi-pilot airplane.....too many people sit there and occupy the seat without learning the job.
The regional I was at years ago had a long upgrade time, and all of a sudden the floodgates opened....they Instituted a quick upgrade program for FOs with thousands of hrs in the same equipment.....the failure rate was astronomical. The pilots had been on the plane for 6-7 years and couldn’t fly a 2 engine ILS to a published missed. decision making, knowledge of the Flight Manual, MEL procedures were all terrible.....they had to re-work the upgrade program to provide enough time to spin people up to the level they should have been operating at already. Some had no problems, because they’d been actively involved all along, but others were just time building.
The regional I was at years ago had a long upgrade time, and all of a sudden the floodgates opened....they Instituted a quick upgrade program for FOs with thousands of hrs in the same equipment.....the failure rate was astronomical. The pilots had been on the plane for 6-7 years and couldn’t fly a 2 engine ILS to a published missed. decision making, knowledge of the Flight Manual, MEL procedures were all terrible.....they had to re-work the upgrade program to provide enough time to spin people up to the level they should have been operating at already. Some had no problems, because they’d been actively involved all along, but others were just time building.
07-21-2019, 07:21 AM
#33
Prime Minister/Moderator
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: Engines Turn Or People Swim
Posts: 40,108
You don't really build time in the right seat of an RJ. You're simply KILLING time waiting to upgrade. As you said, you should be preparing yourself for upgrade all along since that's what you're there for. If you grab a lucky straw and get hired by DL before upgrade, great (for you), but I wouldn't bet on that.
07-23-2019, 12:55 AM
#34
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Oct 2016
Posts: 385
I aspire to be like Brian Bosworth’s mullet (except for that part where Bo Jackson ran it over like a squirrel...) - crew cut in the front and Mardi Gras (sans beads...) in the back!
All the best to you and I enjoyed the banter!
All the best to you and I enjoyed the banter!
07-23-2019, 12:59 AM
#35
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Oct 2016
Posts: 385
I absolutely love it - everyone has to start somewhere and having a trash corral named after you is as good a place as any!
I’m not mad, my friend - I try to address answers of substance with substance and other answers with all the playful yet biting satire I can muster at the moment!
I’m not mad, my friend - I try to address answers of substance with substance and other answers with all the playful yet biting satire I can muster at the moment!
They were so impressed with my ability to read and study an interview prep package that they named their parking lot after me. Well...to be fair, they only named the spot in the parking lot with the garbage bins after me but I am looking to aggressively expand.
Even though I know you are just trolling at this point, I still want to offer you some career advice (absolutely free, no obligation) based on my *parking lot garage bin's worth* wealth of knowledge......
Even though I know you are just trolling at this point, I still want to offer you some career advice (absolutely free, no obligation) based on my *parking lot garage bin's worth* wealth of knowledge......
07-23-2019, 01:04 AM
#36
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Oct 2016
Posts: 385
Ain’t nobody got time for that!
All kidding aside, I wish the men and women of ENY’s pilot group the best and it’s rough to see them victimized by equal parts dehumanizing management and their own success & professionalism (in forgetting about said management on a day-to-day basis...), but - barring profound changes - I’m not sure why anyone who takes the time to understand things would go to ENY currently; the issues are much deeper than the 25%-ish pay gap versus the 2 other WO’s, but fixing that would be a great place to start!
All kidding aside, I wish the men and women of ENY’s pilot group the best and it’s rough to see them victimized by equal parts dehumanizing management and their own success & professionalism (in forgetting about said management on a day-to-day basis...), but - barring profound changes - I’m not sure why anyone who takes the time to understand things would go to ENY currently; the issues are much deeper than the 25%-ish pay gap versus the 2 other WO’s, but fixing that would be a great place to start!
07-23-2019, 01:17 AM
#37
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Oct 2016
Posts: 385
Meaningful answers of substance were regarded as such & genuine gratitude was shown while other answers were used as the gateway to happy-go-lucky fun time; it’s not tough to discern between the two and it’s pretty easy to see who wants to help & who tells the girls at the bar that they fly for UAL/DAL/AAL (instead of Speedtape Hairlines...). I fully recognize the validity of your point, I’ve worked well with people from varied backgrounds in past lives and dynamics in person & on a trip are very different, but the internet - especially dank corners frequented by pilots (haha) - is what it is and I hope folks are capable of putting things in context & laughing a bit at themselves & with (at?) others, too.
What WOULD I name a regional airline if I were dumb enough to start one right now?...
What WOULD I name a regional airline if I were dumb enough to start one right now?...
^ this, but I think Mesa might be the only one to hire you.
Your attitude blows. Every time you get a response you don’t agree with 110%, it turns into a dumpster fire.
I’m quite confident that if you stay on this **** attitude, refusing to take advice, 24/7 adversarial garbage you keep letting out, your life will be miserable for the rest of your most likely short career as a pilot.
You have to remember that every trip will be with a different crew and we ALL talk to each other. It’s a small community and *******s are widely known.
Don’t put the cart in front of the horse.
There are a lot of recruiters/management types on these forums and it’s quite easy to deduce who you are. Tone it down.
Now that I think about it, you should probably start your own regional! I’m sure with your vast knowledge it will be an out-of-the-park success overnight.
You keep posting about wanting to learn or advice, but you are quite clear that you already know more than everyone in the industry.
Seriously, you should probably just ditch the userID and start fresh bc you already have the reputation.
Your attitude blows. Every time you get a response you don’t agree with 110%, it turns into a dumpster fire.
I’m quite confident that if you stay on this **** attitude, refusing to take advice, 24/7 adversarial garbage you keep letting out, your life will be miserable for the rest of your most likely short career as a pilot.
You have to remember that every trip will be with a different crew and we ALL talk to each other. It’s a small community and *******s are widely known.
Don’t put the cart in front of the horse.
There are a lot of recruiters/management types on these forums and it’s quite easy to deduce who you are. Tone it down.
Now that I think about it, you should probably start your own regional! I’m sure with your vast knowledge it will be an out-of-the-park success overnight.
You keep posting about wanting to learn or advice, but you are quite clear that you already know more than everyone in the industry.
Seriously, you should probably just ditch the userID and start fresh bc you already have the reputation.
07-23-2019, 01:24 AM
#38
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Oct 2016
Posts: 385
(Insert meme of that alien dude in Men In Black whose noggin grows back almost-instantly each time K plinks it!)
I appreciate your kind words, well-wishes & perspective gained from many years’ work at a profession you love. I ‘get it’ - you can always tell a pilot in a room...but you can’t tell them much...and gaining wisdom from them becomes a continual exercise in culling the wheat from the chaff for different reasons at different times!
I appreciate your kind words, well-wishes & perspective gained from many years’ work at a profession you love. I ‘get it’ - you can always tell a pilot in a room...but you can’t tell them much...and gaining wisdom from them becomes a continual exercise in culling the wheat from the chaff for different reasons at different times!
OP, don’t let these guys ruffle your feathers. You asked some good questions and you called out some posters for trying to derail the thread. Basic internet MB stuff. Now you see all the BS that comes with dealing with a bunch of pilot ego-maniacs.
If anything lesson learned is this is a group that doesn’t take criticism very well because they all think they fly like Chuck Yeager, and they think being trained to be a mindless procedure follower makes them Albert Einstein. You have to bite your tongue a lot out there but it really is a very fun and rewarding profession. The job is very easy, especially once you get some seniority, and pays very well once you get to the next level.
Best of luck young man. Keep looking 5+ years ahead and you will do well in life.
Heads explode in 3,2,1...
If anything lesson learned is this is a group that doesn’t take criticism very well because they all think they fly like Chuck Yeager, and they think being trained to be a mindless procedure follower makes them Albert Einstein. You have to bite your tongue a lot out there but it really is a very fun and rewarding profession. The job is very easy, especially once you get some seniority, and pays very well once you get to the next level.
Best of luck young man. Keep looking 5+ years ahead and you will do well in life.
Heads explode in 3,2,1...
07-23-2019, 01:31 AM
#39
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Oct 2016
Posts: 385
Thanks a lot and that’s a great point - “Mongo just pawn in game of life” is a phrase will a lot of applicability to the industry’s inevitable cycles.
Beyond the roller coaster cycles, I’m also trying to be as prepared as possible for each step - there’s too many folks right now who get the opportunity of a lifetime at the regional of their choice (because times are good), only to have issues in training. I don’t want to end up there - I want to enjoy putting the work to have a great foundation and be as prepared as possible when it’s my time.
Thanks again, particular for raising the point about how there’s often just not much opportunity - regardless of an individual’s merit - when the inevitable bad times hit.
Beyond the roller coaster cycles, I’m also trying to be as prepared as possible for each step - there’s too many folks right now who get the opportunity of a lifetime at the regional of their choice (because times are good), only to have issues in training. I don’t want to end up there - I want to enjoy putting the work to have a great foundation and be as prepared as possible when it’s my time.
Thanks again, particular for raising the point about how there’s often just not much opportunity - regardless of an individual’s merit - when the inevitable bad times hit.
I’m gonna be a little cranky against the primary premise of the question, which I take as “yeah, anybody can get hired today but what about the day when they only take the really good people “
Airline hiring environments tend to be great or awful with little in between. Airlines have furloughed 20% of their workforce and not hired a single new pilot for years. Airlines fold and dump 1000 experienced pilots on the market. The rare civilian pilots who succeed in a really bad market do it mostly by being the one guy with connections and experience.
So I applaud your go-get-em-ness ... but don’t think you can bootstrap your way to success through any hiring environment. Doesn’t work that way.
Airline hiring environments tend to be great or awful with little in between. Airlines have furloughed 20% of their workforce and not hired a single new pilot for years. Airlines fold and dump 1000 experienced pilots on the market. The rare civilian pilots who succeed in a really bad market do it mostly by being the one guy with connections and experience.
So I applaud your go-get-em-ness ... but don’t think you can bootstrap your way to success through any hiring environment. Doesn’t work that way.
07-23-2019, 01:42 AM
#40
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Oct 2016
Posts: 385
I hear you, but you’re reading into this too much - I’m simply concerned about not crapping the bed in Initial & being as prepared for that as possible, not brown-nosing my way into the corner office or any office for that matter (if that was my goal, I’d be seeking to do something else with my life, right?).
There’s lots of ways to train & build time toward ATP mins and everyone ends up on a slightly different path, due to some combination of choice & the ever-present facts of life - I’m just trying to foster discussion on the pluses & minuses of those different paths among those who have flown with multiple individuals of different backgrounds to learn a way other than the hard way.
There’s lots of ways to train & build time toward ATP mins and everyone ends up on a slightly different path, due to some combination of choice & the ever-present facts of life - I’m just trying to foster discussion on the pluses & minuses of those different paths among those who have flown with multiple individuals of different backgrounds to learn a way other than the hard way.
lol, this reminds me of that classic thread somebody bumped a couple weeks ago where that guy, who wasn't even at a Regional yet, asked how do I become a Chief Pilot because he strives to be better then everybody else in everything he does.
These type of personalities do not go over well in this world. Threads like this are the gift that keep on giving.
These type of personalities do not go over well in this world. Threads like this are the gift that keep on giving.
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