DMP9679

I am tired of reading and listening to all of this crap. So what if the Captain has to teach someone how to run the day to day ops. There is a reason why he is the Captain; experience alone states that he should be able to handle a problem alone. The extra guy is great help...From what I have read here several times, the captain sometimes tries to make statements by not allowing the FO to fly legs.

How do you think that most of us here aquired our hours? We flight instructed. We wouldn't know a thing about teaching Low-timer's how to fly now would we. Stop the B-itching. Heck, you put the auto-pilot on at 600' anyway, why not spend the down time teaching? Or would that cut into your nap time?

Anyway, we all start somewhere.

Flaps50

The FO should be able to handle the plane by himself too from day one after IOE. Infact I think this should be a manuever for FOs as if the Captain was incapacitated (No gouge) it happens in the real world from time to time.

DMP9679

Well, if I am not mistaken, the FO takes a checkride before he is allowed to operate the aircraft...Does that not make him qualified? What I was trying to state, is that it is getting rediculous to constantly complain about the low timers taking the field to play ball. The simple fact is, that both lowtimers and hightimers all have something to learn. You can look at it this way, the captain now has a good means of regurgitating all of his aquired knowledge, and this should help him stay sharp!

Flaps50

I don't think the passengers are aware they are paying for a flight on an instructional sortie to be the normal case. It should be the exception with an IOE Captain. I know there is mentoring normally, but out right instruction by non-IOE captains; come on.

DMP9679

I know that it must stink to have to train Mr. Clueless. But, like the low pay, it is something that everyone is going to have to confront sooner or later. I am not saying that it is right by any means. My only point is, not every low time pilot is as clueless as we are being made out to be. Every tree has a few rotten apples!

Flaps50

LTPs can pass the training obviously, because the test is taught to them; can they be a copilot, in many cases sure because they likely have a competent captain with them who can handle the plane alone if needed. My biggest fear is the fact that in the near future the basics learned as a PIC in another job prior to the airlines will be lost on these pilots. The first time they gain any real PIC time is as a Captain of a jet at an airline with no prior history showing the ability to command well. I would rather my family avoid these flights.

There is a fix to this: change the FAA minimums to ATP for FAR121 flying, stop waiving the ATP PIC requirements, and establish a 4 year degree requirement for ATP as well. This will bring the profession back into one that can command a descent wage at all levels, and provide quality applicants to all airlines who are willing to compensate. The other airlines will fail, and we can limit burning excess fuel, polluting the air, and releave the over burdened ATC sytem, as well as command appropriate prices for the airline service provided, and stop flying empty airplanes around. The pilots who love to fly will succeed, and the current airline pilots will be grandfathered in. This is something I want to see ALPA push while aligning the our pilot concerns with that of the traveling public.

All this talk about global warming; Aviation and Aviation Support is a huge polluter of the world that is in many cases unessessary.

TXTECHKA

you didn't really flight instruct if you got hired at the airlines after 400 hours.

blastboy

Hey, I'm all about fighting global warming. I agree with yor statement and I applaud you on addressing such a serious issue. I think it would be great if you started a thread about flying the empty airplanes and causing excess pollution.

Let's just assume for a second that these HTPs are right, LTPs aren't helping the industry. But how are the HTPs helping anybody by trying to hold them down? It's not the captains job or place to ask for the FOs total time anyway unless he's on a training flight. I hear a lot of "go do some flight instructing before getting an RJ job" from the HTPs. So, flight instructing in a small piston aircraft is going to prepare him better for the RJ than the normal multi/comm pilot flying the same aircraft? Sure, being a CFI will help you become strong on many areas of flight. Maybe it's just too early in the morning, but I can't see how being a CFI in a light piston aircraft is going prepare you for a jet. But everyone is different!

I'm sure there's a low timer here that as flown with a high timer who has needed a helping hand. What about these crazy captains who succumb to "get home -itis" and want to descend below DH in rock hard IMC? Or the captain at National Airlines years ago who wanted to fly the 727 between the twin towers after T/O at LGA. Or maybe the high timers that fell asleep half way over the pacific on a cargo flight; they were suppose to stop in Oakland or something. High timers need a helping hand too; nobody is exempt from being imperfect. If you're a perfect pilot and never needed a helping hand, started with 4000 hours in your first entry and was more than prepared to fly a jet after being a light aircraft CFI, I applaud you. But it's an undeniable fact that those pilots just do not exist. Perfection is what we strive for, it's not what we are.

CL65driver

Actually, most CAs I've flown with put the AP on no lower than 15,000'. I personally like to hand fly it all the way up to cruise, and on the arrival once we have the box set up and all the radios ID'd.

DMP9679

Oh, OK there Chuck Yeager...When is the magic number to be a pro like yourself? By the way, I didn't get to the Airlines after 400 hours. I have 600, military experience as a crew chief on a DC9(I preflighted, postflighted, set up the APU and avionics for flight, inspected and serviced the sircraft; also I have worked the FBO route(fueling, towing, washing, etc, etc.), I have also loaded UPS 757's with cargo for a while). I may not be a "Top Gun" yet, but I am descently knowledgable around aircraft. And my 600 hours were hard earned my friend, even if I did not go all the way through 1000 hours of instructing. I still feel like I have learned alot. I successfully trained seven individuals for their PPL checkrides, and each one passed the first time.

Point is, you don't know everything either. And, there are many low-timers out there who do have a vast array of other aviation related experience...