randalis

I hope no innocent passenger wears a JD hat that day and gets his butt kicked.

Ftrooppilot

In the 1940s thousands of young, 300 hr low time, high school educated, civilian training mill (military contract) pilots helped save the world for democracy. They exhibited skill and bravery beyond our imagination flying combat in Europe and the Pacific.

Today many 300 hour low time CFIs and recent regional hires exhibit imaturity and "raging hormones" by insulting each others aviation skills, families, companies, colleges, fraternities, etc., etc. Picking fights and issuing threats on the internet - don't you folks have any sense of aviation tradition and honor ?

GROW UP !

And for you "high time" experienced pilots tuned in and "snickering." Stop your crying about the LTPs and start mentoring them. Your airplane is taxing at 20 kts. The LTPs are running like hell trying to catch up with it. You old timers are not in the cockpit - you're runing in front hoping the dam thing doesn't run over you. The companies are about to increase power.

GET ON BOARD OR GET OUT OF THE WAY !

skywatch

...And that should be a fitting end to an otherwise pointless debate.

GliderCFI

Amen to that. People should stop bickering and complaining and eliminate the problem of a lack of experience and share their own in the cockpit.

de727ups

"In the 1940s thousands of young, 300 hr low time, high school educated, civilian training mill (military contract) pilots helped save the world for democracy"

Yeah...and have you ever read about the accident rate? It was quite high. Not acceptable in todays airline environment. It was no big deal when a plane crashed on the runways. Happened all the time. They just got a bulldozer and moved it out of the way.

I don't think you wanna really be comparing the WWII low time pilot situation with todays airline crews.

Ftrooppilot

My point is LTPs can be responsible motivated, "eager to learn" assets if they are treated with respect and mentored. There are plenty of young low time C-17, F-16, helicopter pilots etc. being treated that way in todays military.

Runway crashes were infrequent. Most losses were due to aircraft being shot down. Losses due to combat damage are not accidents. To say a military combat damaged crash on a runway "was no big deal" is disengenous. Any aircraft or personnel loss, be it military in combat or civilian requires serious analysis to prevent repeats.

WHen a USAF C-141 collided with a "blacked out combat configured" Navy fighter at DaNang AB Vietnam in 1967, there was significant loss of life. They just didn't get a bulldozer and move it out of the way.

STILL GROUNDED

He started it!

John Deere Hat! I suppose you have your Cap Brass pinned to it as well.

» You Might Be A Redneck Pilot If ...


... you have a sign on the side of your aircraft advertising your septic tank service!
... you constantly confuse Beechcraft with Beechnut!
... you've ever responded to ATC with the phrase "That's a big 10-4!"
... you have ever incorporated sheetrock into the repair of your aircraft!
... you subscribe to The Southern Aviator because of the soft paper!
... your toothpick keeps poking your mike!
... you think GPS stands for going perfectly straight!
... you refer to flying in formation as "We got ourselves a convoy!"
... your cross-country flight plan uses flea markets as check points!
... you use a Purina feed bag for a windsock!
... your stall warning plays Dixie!
... you wear a john deere hat in uniform to pick a fight with another pilot at MSP!

This yours too?

blastboy

Well said! My hats off to you on this post. Don't ever forget about those pilots who put themselves in harms way to make the world a better place.

The only place I see pilots fighting with eachother is on this forum. I see pilots arguing with eachother all the time with pointless name calling, ruthless/unprofessional responses to questions and constant bashing. As pilots, especially in todays' industry, we should not be against eachother but in support of eachother; it's a rough road and the last thing anyone needs is to be pushed into the dirt! I grew up in a family of pilots who believed that there is a brotherhood/honor code among pilots and should support and look after one another; because pilots are not perfect and do make mistakes! Be there when your fellow pilot needs words of advice or a helping hand at the controls of the RJ. Why on earth should a captain become bitter towards the FO? What, because the FO is a low timer? GMAFB! Get over yourselves and realize that you were in the same spot once. If not, accept that times have changed and adapt. A captain is a captain because he accepted the added responsibility that comes with the position. A good captain is humble, open minded and not bitter towards the FO just because of his total time. Afterall, the captain wasn't born to know how to fly; he learned too! I have never in my life met a captain who thought he was better than the guy next to him, thought he was too good to mentor a new FO and doesn't enjoy having an FO. Lastly, we all learn something from eachother, whether you are a 14,000 hour captain or a 50 hr student pilot. We as pilots will never know everything and we will only become a better pilot when we come to peace with that fact. It's not our role to become bitter towards our fellow pilot but realize that you both have a lot to learn from eachother. It saddens me to tears to see how pilots have turned on eachother. As I said, I grew up around a large group of family, friends and random pilots my entire life who viewed aviation as a bonding bortherhood, never leaving anyone in the dirt. If they were in the dirt, they certainly didn't go up to them and kick the dirt in their face. Bottom line: Times have changed. Their will be low time pilots for as long as the aviation world goes round. Instead of pushing them away, help them out, guide them, be nice and treat them with respect. Help them in a way that you wish you were helped during your learning years. Treat the low timer in a way you would like to be treated if you were in his/her position. Don't blame him/her for the faults of the industry because the industry has always been a seesaw. Be proud to be a pilot and exhibit professionalism, responsibility and honor like the pilots before us did that made being an aviator such a great profession.


still grounded: I could mow the lawn in 20 minutes with that thing! LOL

Window_Seat

Brother, how can I help low time pilots not accept a position at Mesa, Pinnacle, or TSA? Please let me know. It's called undercutting and I have no respect for someone that can't wait it out 6 months to get on at a quality regional. It's not that I have a problem with the low timers, it's where they choose to work that I do have a problem with. They are looking out for themselves and only themselves. There is no brotherhood when that happens.

higney85

How in the hell is going to PNCL or TSA undercutting? Are there other more qualified individuals standing by to take the jobs, did I get someone furloughed because I took the job? Does the 250 hour pilot with a smile ear-to-ear suffering from SJS make your life difficult? I think not. All 3 of the carriers you have listed are ALPA carriers, which means the contracts all abide by and have been signed off by the head of the entire union- the president. Why do we have ALPA? To benefit the group, not a particular company. It is obvious that you do not work for any of these 3 companies, but what makes yours so good? I had the time (published mins) for pretty much all the regionals, why did I choose PNCL- I live and am from MEM, all jet fleet, good pilot group. If I was from a skywest base I would have applied there, and AWAC based- you guessed it, would want to be there. If you compare these companies and you want to talk about undercutting the industry what about gojets and gulfstream? If 3 ALPA carriers are undercutting, what are these companies in your mindful logic? Now we can sit here and harp and each company for their respective mgmt issues, but who doesn't have mgmt issues? AWAC has an amazing contract compared to a place like PNCL, but there is no growth and upgrades take at least a year longer than PNCL. PNCL does have issues between mgmt and the pilots, so does ASA and their mgmt- something like 4 years worth of problems! And if you would like to talk about pay and QOL, I have a good friend who is now at ASA- first year FO pay is less than PNCL, with a longer time on rsv. Upgrades are a little longer as well. And ASA and comair are hiring your "LTP's" as well, but they didn't make your list. I do not care if you yield criticism in your posts, but you simply blatantly disrespect many who work for companies that you obviously know nothing about. Do I think PNCL has problems and will have some rough air ahead- YES, but the entire regional industry has turbulence on the radar. I have high hopes and low expectations for PNCL, and I hope that fellow regional groups, and the ALPA union members (both majors and regionals) can begin to take this profession back to what it was. Look at the DAL group- recently (Monday) out of the black and on its own, the pilots want their cut. Look at the APA of AMR- they want their cut. I think scope and compensation will come around slowly and we WILL have jobs in the future at the majors- retirements alone guarantee that. There will be many "super RJ CA's" as they have been described and they will fly you when you want to go see the family in smaller towns, they will also be content with making less than $100K/yr, will enjoy 18 days off and weekends with their families. I don't plan to stay at the regional level longer than need-be, yet the guys/gals getting into this profession with a wife/kids and 10 years on me have a different situation. Many of the CA's that I fly with have no desire to leave the seniority list. They get all that I mentioned above and do not see taking a 50% pay cut, years of reserve, and being an FO as appealing to them. Not everyone can start off flying as a 757 CA, and many people don't need a ton of money to be happy. The median FAMILY income is in the mid-40K range, and you don't see the USA crumbling over it. My father is over at FDX and has many friends that make the "Good money" but are not happy because they work all night M-F and end up divorced. Money and a good contract does not guarantee anything.Look at the past to see that- Delta and United were "the place to be" in the 90's- great money/work rules/etc.. then what happened.. In 10 years I plan to be far away from PNCL, a step above the regional level, and enjoying my life. The regionals are a stepping stone, and "Super RJ CA's" will be needed indefinately, so before you knock someone for who they work for- especially if you are an ALPA member yourself, or what makes someone happy, you may want to know all the facts and think about the simply "why" question. I will not challenge you to a fight cause that accomplishes nothing, but at least you may have you blinders removed after reading this. At least I feel better with my rant..