Compass vs. Envoy
05-16-2019, 06:41 AM
#41
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2018
Posts: 307
Compass will be losing the AA flying. This will result in increased upgrade times. Envoy has a lower QOL but you will upgrade sooner, and have flow in your back pocket.
Another consideration as a commuter is travel benefits. As an Envoy pilot you have the same travel benefits as an AA pilot, including non-rev priority on all AA/AE branded flights over offline jumpseaters and non-revs. The AA travel benefits will also allow you up to 13 friends on your travel list in addition to the immediate family. The immediate family will also come before offline jumpseaters and non-revs.
If AA is on your target list, your time at Envoy will also count towards earning lifetime AA travel benefits... you can’t get lifetime travel on a mainline from subcontractors.
Then there’s the whole “all regionals are not alike” thing... which unless you’ve worked at more than one, or specifically gone on a side by side comparison may not be so obvious, but is definitely true. At some regionals you’ll be doing manual W&B for each flight, and at others they’ve been doing EWBS and ACARS for TOLD data for decades already. You’re also hitting at a time when the shortage is expected to draw the flying back into the mainline and their wholly owned regionals. Keeping the flying in house will keep the upgrades moving and the new hires coming to where the movement is.
Do your research carefully in this emerging market.
Another consideration as a commuter is travel benefits. As an Envoy pilot you have the same travel benefits as an AA pilot, including non-rev priority on all AA/AE branded flights over offline jumpseaters and non-revs. The AA travel benefits will also allow you up to 13 friends on your travel list in addition to the immediate family. The immediate family will also come before offline jumpseaters and non-revs.
If AA is on your target list, your time at Envoy will also count towards earning lifetime AA travel benefits... you can’t get lifetime travel on a mainline from subcontractors.
Then there’s the whole “all regionals are not alike” thing... which unless you’ve worked at more than one, or specifically gone on a side by side comparison may not be so obvious, but is definitely true. At some regionals you’ll be doing manual W&B for each flight, and at others they’ve been doing EWBS and ACARS for TOLD data for decades already. You’re also hitting at a time when the shortage is expected to draw the flying back into the mainline and their wholly owned regionals. Keeping the flying in house will keep the upgrades moving and the new hires coming to where the movement is.
Do your research carefully in this emerging market.
Concerning travel after retirement Republic gets lifetime on DL and UA. I know Skywest has the exact same deal as Republic, but not sure about Compass. Not sure where you got your info, but it’s not correct.
The OP has to decide if he wants to go to AA, and how much he is willing to sacrifice QOL to get there. If AA is is number one (no idea why that would be), then he should go to a AA WO. Preferably one he doesn’t have to commute to. Just know you will pay for the flow with lost QOL.
05-16-2019, 08:23 AM
#42
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2017
Posts: 469
The average time at Compass to a major is 3 years. The minimum time to flow at Envoy is 6-8 years. The majority of people I know at ENY are still there while CPZ pilots are at DL/UA/AA.
Pass travel should not be a top priority (make it schedule, pay, work rules, and list longevity). But for those wondering, Compass has retirement travel through DL. AAs pass travel system is TOC based, so unless you have alarms set for 24 hours prior, good luck, oh and they’ll all -10.
It’s a regional... get in, have fun, and get out!
Exactly.
Pass travel should not be a top priority (make it schedule, pay, work rules, and list longevity). But for those wondering, Compass has retirement travel through DL. AAs pass travel system is TOC based, so unless you have alarms set for 24 hours prior, good luck, oh and they’ll all -10.
It’s a regional... get in, have fun, and get out!
Exactly.
05-16-2019, 08:29 AM
#43
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2017
Posts: 272
Eh, saying CPZ pilots spend 3 years avg and go to DL/UA/AA is probably a bit misleading. 3 year average includes people leaving for Spirit, Frontier (although apparently not anymore), JetBlue, etc. Sure we have a lot going to the big 3 and those other companies are majors - but it's probably not as peachy is that sounds.
05-16-2019, 08:58 AM
#44
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2017
Posts: 570
I like it here at CP, but that 3 years is misleading. A lot of CAs I fly with came from other regionals, so it's not like they are moving up to mainline after 3 years of first getting into 121 flying. Many are here 3 years after already doing 2-4 years elsewhere.
05-16-2019, 11:23 AM
#45
Perennial Reserve
Joined APC: Jan 2018
Posts: 12,146
At the other places Where I was offered CJOs I would have been on reserve for at least four and as much as eight months with minimal flying before getting a line at all. I would have then waited at least 24 months -possibly a lot longer - to get the opportunity TO upgrade. The reason is that the captains in those regionals aren’t leaving very fast. That alone holds upgrade opportunities up for every FO. So it really doesn’t matter WHY people Senior to me are leaving at the rate of 20 per month, the simple fact that they ARE leaving opens up opportunities to all the junior people.
You might question whether future Compass Captains will be as successful at moving on as current ones, I suppose, since for most Compass FOs this is their first and only 121 experience and they are becoming captains rather quickly, only time will tell, but with record retirements coming up, even the majors are going to be dipping deeper into the barrel when it comes to total time, but at least these people will get their 1000 TPIC fairly quickly.
But right now if your career progression depends upon a senior captain leaving who isn’t even TRYING to get out, because his pay ain’t bad, he’s getting good schedules, and - what the H€||, he’ll flow in a couple of years anyway... - well, good luck with that.
05-20-2019, 09:29 AM
#46
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2017
Posts: 467
All true but not necessarily dissimilar to other regionals where a number of people either got trapped or had to start over during the ‘lost decade.’ The point is, I got in, got my type rating, have spent less than two weeks on reserve, and am looking at an upgrade in less than 18 months from showing up for Indoc.
At the other places Where I was offered CJOs I would have been on reserve for at least four and as much as eight months with minimal flying before getting a line at all. I would have then waited at least 24 months -possibly a lot longer - to get the opportunity TO upgrade. The reason is that the captains in those regionals aren’t leaving very fast. That alone holds upgrade opportunities up for every FO. So it really doesn’t matter WHY people Senior to me are leaving at the rate of 20 per month, the simple fact that they ARE leaving opens up opportunities to all the junior people.
You might question whether future Compass Captains will be as successful at moving on as current ones, I suppose, since for most Compass FOs this is their first and only 121 experience and they are becoming captains rather quickly, only time will tell, but with record retirements coming up, even the majors are going to be dipping deeper into the barrel when it comes to total time, but at least these people will get their 1000 TPIC fairly quickly.
But right now if your career progression depends upon a senior captain leaving who isn’t even TRYING to get out, because his pay ain’t bad, he’s getting good schedules, and - what the H€||, he’ll flow in a couple of years anyway... - well, good luck with that.
At the other places Where I was offered CJOs I would have been on reserve for at least four and as much as eight months with minimal flying before getting a line at all. I would have then waited at least 24 months -possibly a lot longer - to get the opportunity TO upgrade. The reason is that the captains in those regionals aren’t leaving very fast. That alone holds upgrade opportunities up for every FO. So it really doesn’t matter WHY people Senior to me are leaving at the rate of 20 per month, the simple fact that they ARE leaving opens up opportunities to all the junior people.
You might question whether future Compass Captains will be as successful at moving on as current ones, I suppose, since for most Compass FOs this is their first and only 121 experience and they are becoming captains rather quickly, only time will tell, but with record retirements coming up, even the majors are going to be dipping deeper into the barrel when it comes to total time, but at least these people will get their 1000 TPIC fairly quickly.
But right now if your career progression depends upon a senior captain leaving who isn’t even TRYING to get out, because his pay ain’t bad, he’s getting good schedules, and - what the H€||, he’ll flow in a couple of years anyway... - well, good luck with that.
You’re talking about a very minuscule amount of the Eagle lifers. We have motivated Captains trying to get out and they also get to Delta, United, Spirit, etc that provide movement ON TOP of the flow. I’ve moved up 700 spots in 8 months, that’s crazy. It’s a constant moving cog
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06-14-2019, 01:25 PM
#47
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2014
Position: Semi-Retired...
Posts: 3,230
How's it looking now a few months after I last posted.... Now the ZED's are gone? All regionals are not the same. The WO will do what it takes to keep their seat filled first. If that ends up meaning downgrades at vendors and eventual recycling themselves, that's what will happen. When the Eagle branded planes start going back next year, will it just be attrition or will there be downgrades?
Not the place to be going to toady, unfortunately.
Not the place to be going to toady, unfortunately.
06-14-2019, 01:28 PM
#48
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2014
Position: Semi-Retired...
Posts: 3,230
You’re talking about a very minuscule amount of the Eagle lifers. We have motivated Captains trying to get out and they also get to Delta, United, Spirit, etc that provide movement ON TOP of the flow. I’ve moved up 700 spots in 8 months, that’s crazy. It’s a constant moving cog
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
06-14-2019, 07:29 PM
#49
Line Holder
Joined APC: May 2018
Posts: 41
How's it looking now a few months after I last posted.... Now the ZED's are gone? All regionals are not the same. The WO will do what it takes to keep their seat filled first. If that ends up meaning downgrades at vendors and eventual recycling themselves, that's what will happen. When the Eagle branded planes start going back next year, will it just be attrition or will there be downgrades?
Not the place to be going to toady, unfortunately.
Not the place to be going to toady, unfortunately.
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