NY Times looks at pilot decline
04-28-2007, 02:17 PM
#71
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Joined APC: Nov 2006
Position: Body at sea level; heart at 70,000+
Posts: 1,349
One man's trash is another man's treasure. If a degree in "underwater basket weaving" has value to a parent or child, what right does anyone else have to criticize it. It's the same with money spent. $150,000 is chump change to some people (not me). They might purchase an airplane, fund a wedding, or send a kid to college. Why the criticism of an "Aviation Education." Let people lead their own lives.
04-28-2007, 03:14 PM
#72
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Posts: 85
Fact: Currently there are more flight instructors (91,343) than there are students (84,866).
In 1970 the majority of pilots were private pilots. (303,779 PVT versus 186,821 COM plus 34,430 ATP). 57% were pvt pilots
In 2006 the majority now is of professional grade pilots. 236,147 PVT versus 130,234 COM plus 144,681 ATP Now 46% are private pilots.
The results are that there are more professional grade pilots than ever before and the statistics continue to increase.
http://www.aopa.org/special/newsroom/stats/pilots.html
SkyHigh
In 1970 the majority of pilots were private pilots. (303,779 PVT versus 186,821 COM plus 34,430 ATP). 57% were pvt pilots
In 2006 the majority now is of professional grade pilots. 236,147 PVT versus 130,234 COM plus 144,681 ATP Now 46% are private pilots.
The results are that there are more professional grade pilots than ever before and the statistics continue to increase.
http://www.aopa.org/special/newsroom/stats/pilots.html
SkyHigh
As for percentages - How many commercial flights were there in 1970 compared to 2006? How many Part 91 corporate aircraft that require someone with at least a commercial certificate to operate were there in 1970 compared to 2006?
04-28-2007, 03:28 PM
#73
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Posts: 85
Technology continues to hammer away at manual labor like Wal Mart spurs outsourcing by its suppliers demanding lower costs. In the end, bigger belts are needed at the top of the food chain while the pants fall off at the bottom.
It's miller time.
04-28-2007, 04:04 PM
#74
:-)
Joined APC: Feb 2007
Posts: 7,339
Sure,, it isn't difficult to find dead end educations.
The question is if your aviation educated person works as a pilot or as something else? In addition it is certain that anyone 40 and under who has gainful employment as an airline pilot will not be able to remain as such until retirement. Every time the industry cycles it throws off more high on the hog companies and employees.
In general it seems that most college educations yield low paying jobs. Trade school is the future.
SkyHigh
The question is if your aviation educated person works as a pilot or as something else? In addition it is certain that anyone 40 and under who has gainful employment as an airline pilot will not be able to remain as such until retirement. Every time the industry cycles it throws off more high on the hog companies and employees.
In general it seems that most college educations yield low paying jobs. Trade school is the future.
SkyHigh
04-28-2007, 04:23 PM
#75
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Joined APC: Jun 2006
Posts: 191
Whatever you say, Nostrafugkingdamus.
04-28-2007, 08:13 PM
#76
Self Employed.
Joined APC: May 2005
Position: Corporate Pilot
Posts: 7,119
The west
One man's trash is another man's treasure. If a degree in "underwater basket weaving" has value to a parent or child, what right does anyone else have to criticize it. It's the same with money spent. $150,000 is chump change to some people (not me). They might purchase an airplane, fund a wedding, or send a kid to college. Why the criticism of an "Aviation Education." Let people lead their own lives.
In my estimation it takes at least two or three generations of family wealth to create such a generation of sole searching individuals who care so little for the value of earning a real living.
The purpose of an education is to broaden ones mind but also to prepare them for self sufficiency as a gainfully employed person. As a parent I feel a responsibility to raise self sufficient people who have the tools to succeed in life.
I read an article in the Wall Street Journal six months back that claimed that people today will trade pay and benefits for an interesting sounding job. Pilots fit squarely into that description.
SkyHigh
04-28-2007, 08:16 PM
#77
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Position: Corporate Pilot
Posts: 7,119
Meaning
Skyhigh
04-28-2007, 08:22 PM
#78
Self Employed.
Joined APC: May 2005
Position: Corporate Pilot
Posts: 7,119
Statistics
Like you said in a previous post, a study is needed for the facts to really mean something. How many of these professional grade pilots hold medical certificates, are current, and getting paid to fly? I know plenty of guys who hold commercial certificates and don't fly.
As for percentages - How many commercial flights were there in 1970 compared to 2006? How many Part 91 corporate aircraft that require someone with at least a commercial certificate to operate were there in 1970 compared to 2006?
As for percentages - How many commercial flights were there in 1970 compared to 2006? How many Part 91 corporate aircraft that require someone with at least a commercial certificate to operate were there in 1970 compared to 2006?
All of the numbers counted only come from pilots who hold current medicals. There could easily be double or triple the number of living and able pilots out there who let their medicals lapse and are not counted anymore. Out of my college graduating class easily fewer than ten percent are still working as pilots. The rest I am sure haven't flown in over a decade.
Just think of how many dream seekers there are who failed and had to let it go. If there are 300,000 plus professional grade pilots with current medicals now then it could be a huge number. My guess it close to a million or more.
SkyHigh
04-28-2007, 08:25 PM
#79
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Joined APC: Jun 2006
Posts: 191
Anyone could say the same thing about any industry. My crystal ball is MEL'd. Maybe you should check yours.
04-28-2007, 08:28 PM
#80
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Position: Corporate Pilot
Posts: 7,119
Go For It !!
SkyHigh and every other pessimistic person on this board...Yes, the aviation industry isn't the best place to be right now, and its very cyclic and futures are questionable. I've grown up around airplanes and the airlines for my entire life. Despite seeing what has happened to my father's pay/QOL/retirement at one of the legacies, there is basically nothing that could deter me from wanting a career flying airplanes.
Call me masochistic if you like, but I've gone to school, experienced other types of thinking (history and international studies are my major and minor), and cannot think of one career I would rather have. Yeah, it's not perfect. Most careers aren't. Nearly everybody on this board talks about quality of life - my quality of life would not be nearly as good if I were doing another job other than flying because I would not be having fun doing it. I want a job that I have fun at. My number one priority is to be happy with my career, and there is no career I'd be as happy doing as flying.
Maybe I'm just not jaded yet because I haven't actually started flying for a real airline. I can see it on the horizon and I'm excited about it. Yeah - I"m realistic that working at a regional won't be amazing in terms of pay/benefits/QOL, but I'm willing to sacrifice those things to do my dream job.
I know this isn't the way everyone feels about this, but I know there are a decent number of people out there like me. I know one of my students gets the same gleam in his eye every time he sees the 172 that I'm sure I got when I was 15 years old....and I think I still get it every now and again. That is what gives me hope in this industry because people who are just willing to focus on the negatives makes it sound like it blows....and while there are things that suck about it, there are some good aspects.
Call me masochistic if you like, but I've gone to school, experienced other types of thinking (history and international studies are my major and minor), and cannot think of one career I would rather have. Yeah, it's not perfect. Most careers aren't. Nearly everybody on this board talks about quality of life - my quality of life would not be nearly as good if I were doing another job other than flying because I would not be having fun doing it. I want a job that I have fun at. My number one priority is to be happy with my career, and there is no career I'd be as happy doing as flying.
Maybe I'm just not jaded yet because I haven't actually started flying for a real airline. I can see it on the horizon and I'm excited about it. Yeah - I"m realistic that working at a regional won't be amazing in terms of pay/benefits/QOL, but I'm willing to sacrifice those things to do my dream job.
I know this isn't the way everyone feels about this, but I know there are a decent number of people out there like me. I know one of my students gets the same gleam in his eye every time he sees the 172 that I'm sure I got when I was 15 years old....and I think I still get it every now and again. That is what gives me hope in this industry because people who are just willing to focus on the negatives makes it sound like it blows....and while there are things that suck about it, there are some good aspects.
People don't do drugs because they focus on the fact that they will eventually kill you. They do them because today they are fun.
Go and fly and let tomorrow sort itself out.
SkyHigh
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