What will a 600hr CFI get you..
04-05-2007, 08:23 AM
#1
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Thread Starter
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: Various
Posts: 462
What will a 600hr CFI get you..
With so many threads about low hiring mins, I wanted to share an experience I just had.
I wanted to get checked out on a C172 at the local FBO so I went on the standard "Checkride" with the duty CFI. He was in his mid to late 20s with 600hrs TT. He's gotten his ratings at a 90 day pilot factory in FL.
We did the standard slow flight, stalls, landings etc... When that was done I wanted to shoot a couple approaches to get used to the plane's instrument setup. The instuctor seemed a little nervous, but said ok. The first VOR went ok, but every time we were vectored through the clouds, he was terrified. Next approach I wanted to practice a holding entry then follow up with an ILS. As Norfolk approach cleared us into holding, we went IMC and he started to panic. We were IMC for a few minutes and started to take some light rime. At this point he told me he had never seen icing before and was starting to lose the picture. To see were this was going, I asking him what did he want to do. he completely froze up.. didn't think to call approach, fly the aircraft out... or anything.. just complete panic. I made a quick call to approach, they dropped us below the ceiling, then we finished the approach for a full stop. We've all been there.. My point is, the first time should not be with 50 passengers behind you... TSA just lowered their mins to 250 TT.. Hope that works out
..
I wanted to get checked out on a C172 at the local FBO so I went on the standard "Checkride" with the duty CFI. He was in his mid to late 20s with 600hrs TT. He's gotten his ratings at a 90 day pilot factory in FL.
We did the standard slow flight, stalls, landings etc... When that was done I wanted to shoot a couple approaches to get used to the plane's instrument setup. The instuctor seemed a little nervous, but said ok. The first VOR went ok, but every time we were vectored through the clouds, he was terrified. Next approach I wanted to practice a holding entry then follow up with an ILS. As Norfolk approach cleared us into holding, we went IMC and he started to panic. We were IMC for a few minutes and started to take some light rime. At this point he told me he had never seen icing before and was starting to lose the picture. To see were this was going, I asking him what did he want to do. he completely froze up.. didn't think to call approach, fly the aircraft out... or anything.. just complete panic. I made a quick call to approach, they dropped us below the ceiling, then we finished the approach for a full stop. We've all been there.. My point is, the first time should not be with 50 passengers behind you... TSA just lowered their mins to 250 TT.. Hope that works out
..
04-05-2007, 08:26 AM
#2
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Joined APC: Mar 2007
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Posts: 2,634
With so many threads about low hiring mins, I wanted to share an experience I just had.
I wanted to get checked out on a C172 at the local FBO so I went on the standard "Checkride" with the duty CFI. He was in his mid to late 20s with 600hrs TT. He's gotten his ratings at a 90 day pilot factory in FL.
We did the standard slow flight, stalls, landings etc... When that was done I wanted to shoot a couple approaches to get used to the plane's instrument setup. The instuctor seemed a little nervous, but said ok. The first VOR went ok, but every time we were vectored through the clouds, he was terrified. Next approach I wanted to practice a holding entry then follow up with an ILS. As Norfolk approach cleared us into holding, we went IMC and he started to panic. We were IMC for a few minutes and started to take some light rime. At this point he told me he had never seen icing before and was starting to lose the picture. To see were this was going, I asking him what did he want to do. he completely froze up.. didn't think to call approach, fly the aircraft out... or anything.. just complete panic. I made a quick call to approach, they dropped us below the ceiling, then we finished the approach for a full stop. We've all been there.. My point is, the first time should not be with 50 passengers behind you... TSA just lowered their mins to 250 TT.. Hope that works out ..
I wanted to get checked out on a C172 at the local FBO so I went on the standard "Checkride" with the duty CFI. He was in his mid to late 20s with 600hrs TT. He's gotten his ratings at a 90 day pilot factory in FL.
We did the standard slow flight, stalls, landings etc... When that was done I wanted to shoot a couple approaches to get used to the plane's instrument setup. The instuctor seemed a little nervous, but said ok. The first VOR went ok, but every time we were vectored through the clouds, he was terrified. Next approach I wanted to practice a holding entry then follow up with an ILS. As Norfolk approach cleared us into holding, we went IMC and he started to panic. We were IMC for a few minutes and started to take some light rime. At this point he told me he had never seen icing before and was starting to lose the picture. To see were this was going, I asking him what did he want to do. he completely froze up.. didn't think to call approach, fly the aircraft out... or anything.. just complete panic. I made a quick call to approach, they dropped us below the ceiling, then we finished the approach for a full stop. We've all been there.. My point is, the first time should not be with 50 passengers behind you... TSA just lowered their mins to 250 TT.. Hope that works out
..
04-05-2007, 08:28 AM
#4
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Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: Home with my family playing with my daughter as much as possible
Posts: 591
Just a quick question...what were you doing in icing conditions in a C-172 for!?!?!? Do you have a death wish...just curious? Maybe the instructor was terrified that you were in those conditions and should not have been there. Just a guess...
04-05-2007, 08:35 AM
#6
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Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: 757/767 FO
Posts: 408
wow dude, calm down, a 172 isnt going to fall out of the sky from a little bit of ice, a quick climb or descent should fix things. You just have to always have an out. I'm no cowboy, but this situation doesn't sound dangerous to me, assuming the poster had more IFR experience than the CFI.
04-05-2007, 08:42 AM
#7
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Joined APC: Oct 2006
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You don't go into KNOWN icing in a 172, but casually finding it isn't a death wish. It requires some action on the pilot's part, which is my point... Also, he's the instructor and and the PIC.. his call... (I'm an ATP with over 5k hrs, but wanted to let him run his cockpit.. I just needed the check in the block). His panic was from never seeing it before.. Lack of experience. It's simple enough.. if you get into it, get out.. A simple call to ATC or just do it on your own and explain later. Either way.. my point is, it was his plane. His situational awareness was non existant and his ability to calmly react to the situation did not exist. Trust me, the situation wasn't dire.. If you think some light rime on a spring day going in and out of the clouds is terrifying conditions... you haven't flown in the Northeast much. I was told he was one of their better instructors before the flight...
04-05-2007, 08:45 AM
#8
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Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: Home with my family playing with my daughter as much as possible
Posts: 591
wow dude, calm down, a 172 isnt going to fall out of the sky from a little bit of ice, a quick climb or descent should fix things. You just have to always have an out. I'm no cowboy, but this situation doesn't sound dangerous to me, assuming the poster had more IFR experience than the CFI.
It just seems odd that a person with a lot of hours would make the descision to go up into icing conditions in a non-icing certified aircraft and in the same sentence down a guy for freaking out for going into IMC.
If I were a person on the outside looking in...I would say neither of them have the experience to fly in the airlines regardless of there experience level or the amount of hours that they have. Just my opinion...
Side note: I am not saying that the person that posted this is not a good pilot...just commenting on the whole situation
04-05-2007, 08:48 AM
#9
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Joined APC: Jul 2006
Position: FO
Posts: 290
Seem like you went up there to make the kid feel bad. You probably intimidated him with you 1000's. When I was an instructor and would ask my student if they went flying with someone with more time than them would would be in control, they would always say the person with the most time. He probably trusted that you wouldnt put him in a situation like that and didnt know how to react to it.
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