Schnides

Why do you hate Cruiseclimb so much ??/

G-Dog

Dude, you need to relax. Cruiseclimb is just making a point about 600 hour pilots. If you do not like his comment, state your reasons why and move on. The bottom line is that you both disagree on this topic. Let it be.

EEked Out

do you guys think it would be an experience builder to have CFII fly in a known ice A/C to get some time in the ice and IMC?

Past V1

I don't hate cruiseclimb...how about this (MUAAAHHH!!! to cruisy) You happy I kissed and made up.

Schnides

I'm happy

BoilerUP

How many of you folks picked up ice on basic piston trainers? I have. Each time I reported it to ATC and requested a different altitude, and *viola* ice disappears. I even picked up ice on a Warrior once in VMC *gasp* when the OAT was 2 degrees *double gasp* from a light mist.

When you start knocking four inches of rime off the unbooted leading edge of a Seneca (as I watched somebody do one night, not that I'd ever recommend getting yourself in that situation) then you can start crapping your pants...not from a slight trace on the temp probe or struts in a Cessna.

Its not a slam but a simple fact that folks that train in Florida often have little actual instrument experience...and even less (if any) time dealing with ice. Doesn't mean they aren't good pilots, its just a deficiency in experience most from that background have and need to gain in order to become good professional pilots.

/rant off

Schnides

No... not intentionally. Just time in IMC will build your confidence.

VTcharter

Cruise climb is exactly right. There are many times that you will encounter very light icing in the clouds that is not expected. This is not necessarily dangerous if you know what to do at those times. Freezing up is not the thing to do! This also illustrates one of the other problems that I have with the wonder schools, as well as many flight instructors...they have a tendency to train pilots as monkeys, instead of forcing them to think outside of the box. Flaps down at this point, speed "x" at this point, gear down at this time, any amount of ice equals death, etc. The problem with this is that it does not take into account the fact that the perfect scenario rarely presents itself in the aviation world, and there comes a time when you need to keep your speed up on final for following traffic, or make a short approach, and the like.

I remember flying with a person once who questioned me for putting the gear down before the flaps when approaching an airport visually and asked to keep the speed up until 5 mile final. It completely blew his mind when I explained to him that the gear can be extended at a higher speed which will allow you to slow down for the proper flap speed. I also had to explain why I didn't request the approach flap setting at the published max speed for the setting. (this was a seperate incident) He seemed very surprised that aircraft configuration changes at the maximum allowable speed can be very uncomfortable for the pax as well as completely unnecessary. This type of knowledge comes from experience.

Please don't get me wrong, I too attended one of these wonder schools pre 9-11, but my first paying pilot job after that was sightseeing. Heavy, hot and high made me really look back and think about the way that I was taught. Having to learn to improvise in order to make an airplane fly was not the best idea with paying passengers in the back and no other pilot in the plane. It worked out but I can't say it was the safest thing to do, and that was only six passengers in a C-207!

What I have learned looking back is that most people can be taught to fly a fancy big airplane, but it takes experience to actaually operate it correctly in the environment. It is great to be able to learn from the guy in the left seat, but keep in mind, you are both there to do a job, and his isn't to be a flight instructor.

cruiseclimb

Thanks Boiler... You usually find a better way than most of getting a point across.. No offense to lower time guys in this post.... Just sharing an experience.

rickair7777

While not approved for the 172, it's hard to operate in the real world without picking up a little non-forecast light rime on occasion. No cause for panic, just monitor the accumulation and leave icing conditions by the most expeditious means. Severe accumulation might be cause to drop below the deck and land on a road or something, but 172's can carry a pretty good load of even clear ice in a crisis, just keep the power and speed up.

I doubt they departed into known or forcast icing.