Squawk_5543

I'm gonna keep my mouth shut on the last 2 comments.....but you should start getting some blowback very soon from my fellow brethren here on those comments.

Floors open....

shanejj

While I have never seen/heard low time ppl get hired in europe after getting their type rating in the u.s.a, I do have a friend that got hired with fairly low time after getting his training done at an "embry riddle" like aviation university. Think it was KLM flight something....he flies Fokkers now for KLM.
Thats about all I know....dunno much about JAA rules.

But back to topic....
Does anyone that posts here and is at TSA know the current situation
within the company?
Who actually applied at TSA since they lowered mins?

ryane946

Ok, I will reply to the posters (blastboy, KDUA, trackpilot) who want to get hired at low time.

Now that I think about it, I really don't mind that you get hired with 250TT. In fact, that would be great for me. There are several reasons.

• First, you will be allowing me to upgrade before you. If you have 250TT, you will have about 200PIC max. The ICAO minimums for upgrade (which most regional airlines use) are 1500PIC (Second in command time counts as 1/2 hour per hour of SIC time). And I think no matter what, you need 250hours of actual PIC time. So I will flight instruct for a year (make more, learn more, and be home everynight) while you go to a crappy regional airline. After one year (lets assume we log 750 hours a year average), we will both have 1000TT, but I will have 750 more hours of PIC while you will have that 750 hours of SIC.
  
  I go to a good quality regional, work there for two years, then upgrade (I would have plenty of PIC and SIC combined). You will have 2500TT, but only 200PIC. So take your 2250SIC time divided by two, and that equals 1125 towards the 1500. Add your 200 of actual PIC, and it looks like YOU CANNOT UPGRADE. You still need 175 hours. 50 hours of that needs to be actual PIC. Looks like you are going to have to go out and rent a C-152 for $70/hr X 50 hours = $3,500. Then you need to get 250 hours of SIC ontop of that. That means you will spend four more months are First Officer, while I am Captain (making more money and building that turbine PIC time (the stuff that actually counts)). All the while:
  I will be making more money because I went to a quality regional while you went to a crappy regional.
  I will have better working conditions because I went to a quality regional while you went to a crappy regional.
  I will have upgraded sooner because I went to a quality regional while you went to a crappy regional.
  There is nothing special about being a regional FO. I would rather flight instruct. Being a regional captain is what counts. And I will get there FASTER THAN YOU!
  .
• There is a good chance that you will wash out of training with only 250TT. That is why 30-50% of TSA's pilots are washing out. Not because their training is necessarily more difficult than other places. It is because their low time applicants don't have the experience. So when you and I go to apply for another airline, I will have an easier time because you will have washed out of training once and I wouldn't have.
  .
• "If I taught you to play golf, could you beat Tiger Woods?" See post #55 for more great explanations.
  http://www.airlinepilotforums.com/sh...t=11328&page=6

I can't understand some people on this board. They are trying to get ahead by doing two things:
1. Skipping college
2. Going to a regional with super low time

But in the end, your quick shortcut will only hurt you in the end. It is like two 18 year olds. One goes to work for Safeway making $8 an hour. Hey look, I made $15,000 this year! The other goes to college, doesn't make anything for 4 years, but ultimately makes MILLION(S) of dollars more in his career because he went to college. Not to mention the best time of his life.

Same analogy goes for trying to get on a regional with low time. You initially think you are taking a shortcut, but as I explained above, it will actually take you longer to become captain, AND THAT IS WHAT MATTERS!!! Plus, the problem with chasing a quick upgrade at a crappy regional is what happens if hiring slows down. The only certainty in the airline industry is UNCERTAINTY. If you hold out until you have 1000TT, you can go to a good quality regional. If hiring slows down or you get stuck there, you will be at a decent place for several years. If you chase the low mins at TSA, you may get stuck there for years!!!

But hey, if you really want to chase that quick upgrade, you will be doing ME a favor, not you.

P.S. "Me" in this post referred to a fresh 250TT pilot for comparision purposes.

shanejj

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

If a "crappy" regional is the only place "ME" can get into with 250TT, why not take it and then move on after a year or two. "ME" would have the jet training AND the hours to go to a "quality" regional........
Just a thought......how much can that PIC be worth saying "that was a good steep turn Mrs. Jones, almost as good as your husband's"

p.s
Also thinks that 250hrs is kinda playing with fire....but isnt that how it was
40yrs ago?....according to another thread...

JoeyMeatballs

Yeah well, there is no pilot like a US Trained pilot.......................sorry fellas, nothing like a good ol boy

HoboPilot

I don't think it's that hard to understand why people are trying to get to regionals as soon as they can. I remember when I started my flight training back in 2005 my CFIs talked in amazement about a guy who got hired by Piedmont with only 500TT. Now here we are talking about a company advertising its minimums as half that. The industry is changing and people want to get a "real" flying job as soon as they can. Although I agree with your course of action, I think many young pilots view instructing as tedious flying compared to getting to wear three bars on their shoulders sitting right seat in a shiny jet. So with that mindset, why not cut out the middle man, because all that really matters is having that jet job right?

I look at this attitude as an advantage for me, because it will hopefully mean that there will be more CFI openings for me when I'm at that point in my life.

Squawk_5543

I'll make it easy for you guys....

http://www.airlineapps.com/intro/Tra...es/default.asp




There ya go !!

Cheers.

KDUA

What an interesting post , are you a currently a flight instructor at a flight school??? or you want to be one? from your post I don't think you have an instructor job yet? NOT HARD TO GET ONE THESE DAYS? THERE IS A BIG BIG CFI SHORTAGE IN US. Ok lets go back to the subject,, You think it is easy to be an flight instructor when the flight school pay you peanuts and the student don't show up when they are suppose to. Your boss will tread you like **** and then at the end of the month you don't have money to pay the bills. So tell me MR Einstein how long do you think you can keep working as a CFI!!!WHile you know you can get a job flying a shiny jet that pay's better than your instructor job. I can tell you that after few months as an instructor (2-3 months)you will start looking for a job!!! belive me been there and done that.

How can you compare a single engine piston time with a crj or emb jet time?? No offense, but are u stupid or what?

jet time is much more valuable than any freaking single engine piston time.
I can tell you that if you have 500tt on type of aircraft, such as CRJ, EMB you can pretty much go anywhere in the world and work. You can go to Dubai, Bahrain, India and make more than 7000 dollars a month tax free + housing.
So, Einstein I'm not trying to get a job with TSA. I have about 850tt and there are other options for me. I'm just telling you how reality is.

And if you think 250tt is very low, just wait, other regional will do the same thing. Within few years we will see a big big pilot shortage around the world. So, everyone that apply to regionals I wish you guys the best and make sure you get your foot in the door and get the valuable jet time!!!

KDUA

ryane946

The first of many wrong assumptions in your post. I graduated college last year and have been working as an aerospace engineer for the past 10 months. I CFI in my spare time. I have just over 600 dual given in the last 10 months, and about 900TT.

aaahhh...... NO! All the CFI's at my school are independent contractors. My rates are low, and I made $35 an hour (just upped it to $40 an hour). Boss is awesome. And you have no idea how much money I made last month (But I will give you a hint. Unless you have 10+ years at a regional or are at a major airline, I made more money than you!!!)

At least another 2-3 months while I pass 1000TT. I will be applying to Skywest, ExpressJet, and maybe Horizon.

Not true. Shiny jet job = $20,000. My gig = $30,000 from instructing plus another $52,000 from my engineering job.

Not true. I enjoy instructing. You must have had a lousy experience. Sorry.

I believe you are the stupid one here. See, I just wrote you a whole post telling you how PIC time is important. But hey, when you are flying as my FO even though you are senior to me, you can tell me how valuable your jet time was

Sorry. I have no desire to leave the richest and most powerful country in the world to get a job flying a big airplane.

You really struck out. Care to step to the plate again??

Fly IFR

Ain't that the truth. Every regional out there needs 700 pilots for this regional, another 600 for this one, 400 for this one, another 600 for this one and on and on. The demand for pilots is not being met by the supply. I wish we could all just accept the fact that mins are going to keep on dropping and that is that. There is no use in even talking about it anymore. The subject has been beaten to death.