JollyF15

I had posted this on the compass thread, but I think it's worth a whole new thread:


I know it's apples and oranges, but here's what a 2Lt in the Military makes under the newest pay charts (this includes a 2.2% raise this year):

Base Pay - $2469/mo
Flight Pay - $156/mo
BAS - approx $1000/mo (depends on what part of the country you live in)

there are also additional COLA's added for living overseas. With the added tax bennies, your average 2LT pilot type is making between $3600 and $4000 a month or over 40K per year.

When you start comparing what a more senior officer/pilot is making, and compare that to somone of like experience at a legacy is making now it's the same. Let's look at a Lt Col with 18 years experience. Looks like this:

Base Pay - $6900/mo
Flight Pay - $840/mo
Housing - $1300-$2000 (depends where you live)

Let's just call it $9000 grand a month or 108K a year, and when you take all the tax bennie into account jack it another 15-20K. That's not too shabby.

I'm not trying to poke anyone in the eye here, just make a statement. In all my years in the military did I ever dream I'd make more than my civilian counterpart. I never did it for the money, I loved the job. That may be the case for a lot of you too. But the bottom line is, you gotta put bread on the table and save for a rainy day. A guy in the right seat of an RJ/SAAB/Whatever deserves and should expect more than 20K a year. You just can't pull a guy off the street and ask him to do what we do overnight, but it looks like some of the clowns running these companies would do it if they could.

I'm glad some of you are happy with your work environment at Mesaba or where ever else you work, but you deserve more than your getting. Like I said, I'm not trying to poke you in the eye---but look at what a 2Lt is making right off the street in UPT, and when you compare what a Lt Col is making to a legacy Capt on a DC-9 or Airbus it's kinda sick.

Jolly

thestaton

while you are correct, but as I've found out its not always about the money.

at least if you work for a regional you are not subjected to just a few of these things...

Lounging at home on your day off and lets what could happen.

notified of a mandatory "fun" run.

don't get to settled in, you have to move every 3 to 4 years.

voluntold you will be serving in the desert for 120 days. have your bags ready in 24 hours.

hope you love computer work cause you'll be finding yourself behind one very quick.

hope you really love flying at cruise, on a 10 day trip you might get 1 T/O & landing.

don't buy those concert tickets, you'll never know your schedule any more than 3 days out.

I can go on for pages, but that's just a few examples of what I see AMC LT's go through.

Ftrooppilot

Been there, done that, got the T-Shirt

During my 22 years in the military, I was always jealous of friends who got out and went to the airlines. They lived in big houses, had big sailboats or nice sailplanes and worked less then half the hours I did - Not to mention they didn't get shot at.

It was only later that I realized how wrong I was. My USAF retirement pay (to date) has totaled more then I made in twenty two years of active duty. Added to this, I have worked in aviation jobs that brought me home to my family every night.

When comparing the financial benefits of an active duty military flying career to an airline career remember "the check comes the first of the month starting when you retire - I was 42.


The sad part is too many friends who never lived to collect it.

ghilis101

the military definitly pays more, but i chose to leave active duty early and fly RJ's because i have a lot more fun doing this than that. the biggest problem with military is that they want you to be an officer first and a pilot 2nd. that was a major problem for me because you would find yourself flying once a week, and sitting in an office doing paperwork the rest of the time. they guys who did fly alot spent most of their time in brown flight suits in the desert. very unappealing. sure you make tons of money, but you watch your early adulthood get wasted away. youre doing it for a great cause, but still i believe in a perfect balance.

that balance, is the reserves or guard. it is the best combination for lifestyle. You get to do both the military and airline thing, make more money on the side, and leave one and go to the other whenever youre just plain sick of it.

i tell everyone i can to join the military because it really will take care of you down the road. however, i would always recommend the reserves or guard first especially for young guys who still want to live their lives.


statons post is right on. those would be your biggest disadvantages to being active duty.

Ftrooppilot

ghilis101 is absolutely correct. There are "management jobs" (chief pilots, sim instructors, etc.) that airline pilots move into but far less % wise then the military has. There was an interesting discussion of the subject and one I posted in another thread. It's appropriate to enter it here.

There is an assumption in many threads that EVERY regional pilot aspires to be a major/legacy Captain with the associated "big bucks." How true is this ?

I once attended a class where an unwelcomed young bearded college professor told 500 mid level military officers what was wrong with the Air Force. He started by saying, "You don't have enough dumb people !" An hour later he got a standing ovation. Dumb was a metaphore for folks who don't seek advanced education and promotion (UPWARD MOBILITY).

You bring a guy named Charlie out of the hills, give him boots, a uniform, three square meals a day, roof over his head and teach him to be a crew bus driver. He is in heaven and the best driver you got. After three years you tell Charlie (and all the drivers) they have to attend supervisory management school so they can be in charge of the motorpool. Only one can be in charge.

Charlie says, "No boss. I just want to be the best crew bus driver and retire in twenty years then go back to the hills where I'll be somebody." You then rate him as unmotivated, kick him out after four years and go back to the hills for another crew bus driver.

WHY NOT LET HIM SPEND HIS CAREEER DRIVING THE BUS ?

The professor then turned to the mostly pilot audience and said, "Each of you left the cockpit and is here to get advanced management training so you can be a squadron commander. A small percentage will make it. Yet this is the only way you can advance in rank."

WHY DON'T THEY LET YOU SPEND A CAREER FLYING AIRCRAFT ?

I suspect many regional pilots, once they reach a certain income and quality of life level, ask themselves, "Why leave ?" How many think this way, I don't know. If the numbers are significant, it could cause eventual hiring shortages in the majors. There is an old expression, "If you shine like a diamond in a goat's a**, why change ?"

bla bla bla

Look, I don’t think he is trying to compare the military to airlines, his point, (at least the one I got) was the military is paying a significant amount more than the regionals, which is a change from when he started.
WHY do we all continue to justify our low wages???????????????

"But you could be a chief pilot or cut the ceo's lawn etc, and you don’t have that opportunity in the military".

Give me a break.

JollyF15

It was not my intent to compare jobs, because they are apples and oranges. My main point was to show how much the industry as a whole has given up, and what we all need to fight to get back to. Like I said, I never dreamed that I'd make more than my civilian counterpart as a military pilot, and never expected to. I did not fly military jets for the money, the job I have now I do. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy my airline job----but I'm mo debintently doing it for the pay check.

Jolly

schoolio

I am now an FO for a regional.

2 years ago, I was a Captain in the Army with 7 years in service making triple what I do now.

I'm not deployed. I'm not sitting in my windowless office behind the computer for 15 hours a day. I'm not listening to my boss ask me to do the impossible, and get it done yesterday. I'm not having some POS colonel telling me I'm not doing my job well enough or fast enough when I'm really doing it as well as or better than anyone else in my unit could.

Yeah, the pay currently sucks. And the flying isn't as exciting. But I get to see my wife more. I'm home more. And I'm not getting shot at. A reasonable trade-off for the time being, at least in my opinion. Money isn't everything.

That being said, I'd sure as hell like to make more than I do now. Maybe this "shortage" will have an impact on wages...who knows.

N6724G

Not everyone can fly for the military. I would LOVE to be a pilot inthe USAF. Actually it was my childhood dream. But because I wear glasses, that dream didnt happen. So, for me flying inthe military is not an option. I am inthe militry however as a non pilot and I make the same thing a pilot makes except the flight pay. So its all good.

N6724G

"Sitting at your desk" You arent 11 series are you?