67Creek

Sorry to post another one of these X vs Y threads. Things change pretty quickly; I want to make sure I have up-to-date information. I'll try to post in a way that might make this useful to others.

I will be applying for Piedmont and Envoy in the next week. Hopefully I can interview with both in October. If I get an offer from just one, my decision is made. My problem lies in choosing one over the other if I receive an offer from both.

Neither company has a domicile near me, and I'm pretty mobile. I plan to move to whatever domicile I end up in.

Envoy Advantages

• Better signing bonus ($21,000 vs Piedmont's $16,200)
• Better pay first five years of captain-hood ($65-$74) than Piedmont ($58-73) [145 payscales]
• Quicker training process (I hear it can take months to get a class at Piedmont, and there are delays along the way)
• More domicile options for new hires
• Bigger pilot group (any particular advantages to this?)

Piedmont Advantages

• $39.37 starting pay, vs Envoy's $37.90
• Quicker flow (for someone hired in the next couple of months) than Envoy, correct?
• Both have historically short reserves, but Piedmont's is a little shorter?

Commonalities

• Similar QoL (could use improvement)
• Could upgrade as soon as I have 1000 hrs 121
• Probably flying 145 at either (I'm early 30's, no military or 121 experience)

Questions

• Do these conclusions seem accurate?
• Anyone have an idea what the flow times might be for someone that interviews in October and takes the first class date available? I hear Piedmont might be very short, as in less than five years. Envoy, on the other hand, has some massive classes the last couple of months.
• What advantages/disadvantages am I missing?

Ultimately, I'm interested in determining which is the best path for long-term success and benefit/compensation over my entire career, even if it means making some sacrifice in the first few years.

I would think that Piedmont, if its flow is several years shorter, would be better in the long run (better seniority in the majors). However, that could be a moot point if the majors would hire a pilot before either flow date. In that case, the pay/benefits during a pilot's stint in the regionals becomes a bigger factor, as do things such upgrade date (which might be sooner at Envoy, if it takes a lot longer to go from interview->flying at Piedmont.)

Anyways, just trying to make a good decision. Thanks in advance.

Otterbox

Piedmont is smaller and expanding- which brings greater opportunity to build the resume outside of flying the line (folks in their first year are in the training center or working recruiting, LCAs in their 3rd year and Chief Pilot in their 5th year at the company).

Folks are flowing in their 5th year at the company, currently flowing 5/month and the flow increases with every 125 pilots on the seniority list projections are expected to stay around the 5 year mark (perhaps lower depending on timing and outside attrition).

Envoys currently flow is @ 12.5 years but projected to be 6-8 for new hires.

Piedmont has no reserve. Training backups are decreasing.

Both are good companies with flows to AA. The money will be very similar in each seat position (within 10% unless you’re picking up PDTs 300% critical pay). Ultimately it’s going to boil down to which company you feel has the best personality and fit for you.

criticalaoa

I work for Envoy and the way you describe it is perfect. I think this one of the best reviews between airlines I have ever read on this forum.

jonnyjetprop

For the best QOL, you'll want to move the your base. PDT is PHL. Envoy has several. I'd put a lot of stock in where you're willing to move. If you're hell bent on commuting, look for the easier commute.

Pedro4President

Pay is a wash. The majority of pilots will likely make similar incomes. Then there are the outliers. These are the guys really working the system to make the most money. I think PDT will likely have the edge here. As an FO this year I have made 49k year to date.
Flow time shouldn't be factored in to your decision because you will likely get hired outside the flow. Anyone tells you you are flowing in 5-6 is flat out lying to you.
The ONLY small advantage Envoy has on flow is the attrition factor.
QOL is Envoy hands down. There are few airlines Envoy can say about this but expect about two - five days off per month more at Envoy.

You really can't make a bad decision here with either airline. The guys last sentence sums up everything.

67Creek

Thanks for the replies!

Any other comments? I'm still happy to have input. I have invitations to interview from both companies now.

I'm leaning towards Piedmont. Is anyone of the opinion that Envoy is the better opportunity?

havick206

Yes the training continuum is very backed up at PDT, a buddy of mine was hired there early June, did his Indoc same time. Hasn’t gone back at all ground school yet and he keeps calling the training dept and they can’t tell him when he is going back for training. So that has an exponential effect on your upgrade time in the current market if that’s what you’re shooting for, if not then enjoy the paid time off. Also if you have flights hours that make you eligible for Capt upgrade then this doesn’t really play much of a factor then.

Not saying that Envoy hasn’t had hiccups in the training pipeline but at the moment it’s runnign fairly smoothly.

Envoy will also give you far more flexibility to change your schedule month to month and ultimately end up with more days off than at PDT (speaking with friends of mine at PDT). Most months as an FO at Envoy I fly about 85-90 hours and credit 130+ with ease (I live in base and held a line right off IOE).

Either way both companies are a good option out of all the regionals in offer out there. Flow is a mice backstop but not the biggest consideration.

Otterbox

Your buddy is foolish... Folks are advised its in their best interest not to call the training department. They give specific instructions on how to communicate with the training department in indoc.

phrogfella

I can see getting hired outside of the flow to a LCC but do you think that that the same is really true for the legacy carriers? It was my impression that at least at AA, that non-military, OTS hires only make up a small fraction of each new hire class. In your vision of getting hired outside of the flow, how do you see this all going down for someone at a WO?

Pedro4President

I don't think being at a WO has any bearing on someone getting hired at AA.