Ranking the Regionals...
08-04-2017, 09:29 AM
#21
New Hire
Joined APC: Oct 2016
Posts: 616
Let me get this straight.......You get "a feel" for a legacy's culture because your contract carrier flies for them?
So a Delta gate agent(who is probably contract) gives you "a feel" for Delta's culture?
Who else do you deal with that gives you this "feel"? How in the world does it give you a "feel" for the pilot that will be sitting next to you at whatever legacy you go to?
I've seen some stretches and the AA/Delta WO have their own issues but WOW is this ever a stretch. "Go work for a non-wo to get a feel for who you will be working for".......You are going to go to whoever calls you first anyway.
So a Delta gate agent(who is probably contract) gives you "a feel" for Delta's culture?
Who else do you deal with that gives you this "feel"? How in the world does it give you a "feel" for the pilot that will be sitting next to you at whatever legacy you go to?
I've seen some stretches and the AA/Delta WO have their own issues but WOW is this ever a stretch. "Go work for a non-wo to get a feel for who you will be working for".......You are going to go to whoever calls you first anyway.
Amen to this! Lol "Oh hello United, what you've decided to hire me? Why thank you but I worked at XXX and I don't like the feel and vibe of your place so I'll pass and wait for someone else to call me. Thanks" Probably not.. I'll keep my insurance (flow) policy in effect while I see what's out there.
08-04-2017, 09:49 AM
#23
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,029
Let me get this straight.......You get "a feel" for a legacy's culture because your contract carrier flies for them?
So a Delta gate agent(who is probably contract) gives you "a feel" for Delta's culture?
Who else do you deal with that gives you this "feel"? How in the world does it give you a "feel" for the pilot that will be sitting next to you at whatever legacy you go to?
I've seen some stretches and the AA/Delta WO have their own issues but WOW is this ever a stretch. "Go work for a non-wo to get a feel for who you will be working for".......You are going to go to whoever calls you first anyway.
So a Delta gate agent(who is probably contract) gives you "a feel" for Delta's culture?
Who else do you deal with that gives you this "feel"? How in the world does it give you a "feel" for the pilot that will be sitting next to you at whatever legacy you go to?
I've seen some stretches and the AA/Delta WO have their own issues but WOW is this ever a stretch. "Go work for a non-wo to get a feel for who you will be working for".......You are going to go to whoever calls you first anyway.
Amen to this! Lol "Oh hello United, what you've decided to hire me? Why thank you but I worked at XXX and I don't like the feel and vibe of your place so I'll pass and wait for someone else to call me. Thanks" Probably not.. I'll keep my insurance (flow) policy in effect while I see what's out there.
So I'm going to ASSume that you both work for a WO. You're telling me you can't gauge the culture at American or Delta (depending which WO) by working within their system? If you're answer is no, then you are either oblivious or don't have an understanding for what a corporate culture even is.
No one said by any means this would be a sole discriminator. It is certainly an advantage to being non-WO, however big or small. If you have multiple offers, it could be huge. If you have one then it's not even a consideration. You WO guys are blowing this out of proportion and exaggerating minute details.
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08-04-2017, 09:58 AM
#24
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2016
Position: B-737
Posts: 433
Since most threads are posting in favor of the AA WO flow, I'll present the other side.
Personally, I am not as convinced on the AA WOs. I like how with airlines such as Republic and Skywest, it is possible to get a feel for the company culture of each Legacy that they fly for. One trip may be AA, and the next may be Delta, United, or Alaskan if you're going with Skywest. I find value in getting to explore the ins and outs of each company before committing to one. Then, when it's time to go to a major, I can make an informed decision on which one I want to fly for. With the WO you fly for American, and then you're trapped in the AA system. If you decide to leave the AA system then you're going in more blind than you would be otherwise. Right now, I am still a student working on my flight training, and about 3-4 years from starting a class at a regional. Right now, I want to work for Delta (which may be why I'm not as in love with the flows), but I also realize that once I get to the airlines it won't be all glitz and glamour. I want my regional to let me experience the industry, and get a feel for where I want the rest of my career to go. If I realize I don't want to fly for Delta, then I have learned that lesson before I commit to working for them.
Also, I've heard horror stories of the flow working backwards. For instance an exceptional pilot in the regionals was going through training for his flow, but made a mistake. Then he couldn't move up to the major but couldn't go back down because everyone had already moved up in seniority, and ended up being out of a job.
Overall, any regional will get you to a major. It's a relatively short term phase of life. If the end goal is to make it a major, any of them will get the job done, it just depends what you want to get out of it. Also, I'd say it's important to weigh all of the posted QOL metrics.
Personally, I am not as convinced on the AA WOs. I like how with airlines such as Republic and Skywest, it is possible to get a feel for the company culture of each Legacy that they fly for. One trip may be AA, and the next may be Delta, United, or Alaskan if you're going with Skywest. I find value in getting to explore the ins and outs of each company before committing to one. Then, when it's time to go to a major, I can make an informed decision on which one I want to fly for. With the WO you fly for American, and then you're trapped in the AA system. If you decide to leave the AA system then you're going in more blind than you would be otherwise. Right now, I am still a student working on my flight training, and about 3-4 years from starting a class at a regional. Right now, I want to work for Delta (which may be why I'm not as in love with the flows), but I also realize that once I get to the airlines it won't be all glitz and glamour. I want my regional to let me experience the industry, and get a feel for where I want the rest of my career to go. If I realize I don't want to fly for Delta, then I have learned that lesson before I commit to working for them.
Also, I've heard horror stories of the flow working backwards. For instance an exceptional pilot in the regionals was going through training for his flow, but made a mistake. Then he couldn't move up to the major but couldn't go back down because everyone had already moved up in seniority, and ended up being out of a job.
Overall, any regional will get you to a major. It's a relatively short term phase of life. If the end goal is to make it a major, any of them will get the job done, it just depends what you want to get out of it. Also, I'd say it's important to weigh all of the posted QOL metrics.
08-04-2017, 11:51 AM
#25
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2013
Posts: 1,083
So I'm going to ASSume that you both work for a WO. You're telling me you can't gauge the culture at American or Delta (depending which WO) by working within their system? If you're answer is no, then you are either oblivious or don't have an understanding for what a corporate culture even is.
No one said by any means this would be a sole discriminator. It is certainly an advantage to being non-WO, however big or small. If you have multiple offers, it could be huge. If you have one then it's not even a consideration. You WO guys are blowing this out of proportion and exaggerating minute details.
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No one said by any means this would be a sole discriminator. It is certainly an advantage to being non-WO, however big or small. If you have multiple offers, it could be huge. If you have one then it's not even a consideration. You WO guys are blowing this out of proportion and exaggerating minute details.
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I work for an AA WO and I still barely understand their culture. When I see friends that have flowed in the terminal they literally say "you have no idea, it's a night and day difference." This is with me working at an airline that AA has a vested interest in.
There is no way you get any idea of a culture of a mainline by working at like republic. I bet a good 50% of mainline pilots don't even know which companies fly their regional lift. It's absurd.
08-04-2017, 12:06 PM
#26
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,029
Please tell me how on earth you get a feel for the culture of an airline by having their name painted on your acft and parking at their gates. Do you receive emails from a mainline? Do you talk to their pilots? Their FAs? Do you interact with their mgmt? Like I said you may interact with their agents now and again but I bet just as much you are dealing with contract agents/rampers. Since I'm so clueless please inform me.
I work for an AA WO and I still barely understand their culture. When I see friends that have flowed in the terminal they literally say "you have no idea, it's a night and day difference." This is with me working at an airline that AA has a vested interest in.
There is no way you get any idea of a culture of a mainline by working at like republic. I bet a good 50% of mainline pilots don't even know which companies fly their regional lift. It's absurd.
I work for an AA WO and I still barely understand their culture. When I see friends that have flowed in the terminal they literally say "you have no idea, it's a night and day difference." This is with me working at an airline that AA has a vested interest in.
There is no way you get any idea of a culture of a mainline by working at like republic. I bet a good 50% of mainline pilots don't even know which companies fly their regional lift. It's absurd.
When you operate different code shares you see how they route their aircraft, the priorities they give to certain flights, and yes interactions with gate agents and how some work with the flight crews and others try to be hardasses (could certainly be station specific). Not every interaction with a gate agent or ramper is that of someone that is outsourced. You pay attention to the interactions of those that aren't outsourced.
All of this and more let's you glean how their operation runs from a day to day basis and from that you can generate an opinion on what you like from different code shares and what you don't like. This is strictly day to day operation. You're right though, you don't get the management emails and all that but that isn't the daily grind you get flying the line. All of this comes from the top down. A culture is set from the top down. You notice that some groups are more disgruntled than others.
I hope this makes sense and helps, otherwise I think we may have to agree to disagree.
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08-04-2017, 12:49 PM
#27
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2013
Posts: 1,083
When you operate different code shares you see how they route their aircraft, the priorities they give to certain flights, and yes interactions with gate agents and how some work with the flight crews and others try to be hardasses (could certainly be station specific). Not every interaction with a gate agent or ramper is that of someone that is outsourced. You pay attention to the interactions of those that aren't outsourced.
All of this and more let's you glean how their operation runs from a day to day basis and from that you can generate an opinion on what you like from different code shares and what you don't like. This is strictly day to day operation. You're right though, you don't get the management emails and all that but that isn't the daily grind you get flying the line. All of this comes from the top down. A culture is set from the top down. You notice that some groups are more disgruntled than others.
I hope this makes sense and helps, otherwise I think we may have to agree to disagree.
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All of this and more let's you glean how their operation runs from a day to day basis and from that you can generate an opinion on what you like from different code shares and what you don't like. This is strictly day to day operation. You're right though, you don't get the management emails and all that but that isn't the daily grind you get flying the line. All of this comes from the top down. A culture is set from the top down. You notice that some groups are more disgruntled than others.
I hope this makes sense and helps, otherwise I think we may have to agree to disagree.
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How they route their acft? Don't you have your own dispatchers for that? If you are referring to something else. If you work for XJT in EWR you are savvy to how mainline routes their acft in DEN, or LAX? As far as the structure I'd say the majority of "issues" happen some way or another because of something out of the mainline's control. Mainline route structures don't just break down without a major weather event, computer issue, etc. In the case of an event well, if I really need to see how United handled it I can just look on flight aware or any other similar tool.
I understand what you mean by top down but dealing with a delta gate agent in like ABQ is not going to give you any kind of idea what the pilots or FAs that affect your day to day life are going to be like.
If you absolutely must know then you can jump seat around the country for a day on each legacy and make you decision that way.
This whole thing is freakin moot anyway because like I said in my original post if you are sitting at skywest, or RAH, XJT.....Whoever and the phone rings with a representative from delta on the other end you sure as shti aren't going to turn them down because "I operated some CRJs at XXX airline for you. I don't care for your culture. I think I'll wait and hope United calls me instead."
08-04-2017, 01:51 PM
#28
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2014
Posts: 480
Since most threads are posting in favor of the AA WO flow, I'll present the other side.
Personally, I am not as convinced on the AA WOs. I like how with airlines such as Republic and Skywest, it is possible to get a feel for the company culture of each Legacy that they fly for. One trip may be AA, and the next may be Delta, United, or Alaskan if you're going with Skywest. I find value in getting to explore the ins and outs of each company before committing to one. Then, when it's time to go to a major, I can make an informed decision on which one I want to fly for. With the WO you fly for American, and then you're trapped in the AA system. If you decide to leave the AA system then you're going in more blind than you would be otherwise. Right now, I am still a student working on my flight training, and about 3-4 years from starting a class at a regional. Right now, I want to work for Delta (which may be why I'm not as in love with the flows), but I also realize that once I get to the airlines it won't be all glitz and glamour. I want my regional to let me experience the industry, and get a feel for where I want the rest of my career to go. If I realize I don't want to fly for Delta, then I have learned that lesson before I commit to working for them.
Also, I've heard horror stories of the flow working backwards. For instance an exceptional pilot in the regionals was going through training for his flow, but made a mistake. Then he couldn't move up to the major but couldn't go back down because everyone had already moved up in seniority, and ended up being out of a job.
Overall, any regional will get you to a major. It's a relatively short term phase of life. If the end goal is to make it a major, any of them will get the job done, it just depends what you want to get out of it. Also, I'd say it's important to weigh all of the posted QOL metrics.
Personally, I am not as convinced on the AA WOs. I like how with airlines such as Republic and Skywest, it is possible to get a feel for the company culture of each Legacy that they fly for. One trip may be AA, and the next may be Delta, United, or Alaskan if you're going with Skywest. I find value in getting to explore the ins and outs of each company before committing to one. Then, when it's time to go to a major, I can make an informed decision on which one I want to fly for. With the WO you fly for American, and then you're trapped in the AA system. If you decide to leave the AA system then you're going in more blind than you would be otherwise. Right now, I am still a student working on my flight training, and about 3-4 years from starting a class at a regional. Right now, I want to work for Delta (which may be why I'm not as in love with the flows), but I also realize that once I get to the airlines it won't be all glitz and glamour. I want my regional to let me experience the industry, and get a feel for where I want the rest of my career to go. If I realize I don't want to fly for Delta, then I have learned that lesson before I commit to working for them.
Also, I've heard horror stories of the flow working backwards. For instance an exceptional pilot in the regionals was going through training for his flow, but made a mistake. Then he couldn't move up to the major but couldn't go back down because everyone had already moved up in seniority, and ended up being out of a job.
Overall, any regional will get you to a major. It's a relatively short term phase of life. If the end goal is to make it a major, any of them will get the job done, it just depends what you want to get out of it. Also, I'd say it's important to weigh all of the posted QOL metrics.
As for your horror story with the flow, I'm calling BS. The PSA flow for example keeps you on the seniority list until you finish IOE at American. Therefore, if you fail then you actually just come back and keep your seniority and longevity. I'd also think that PDT and Envoy have something along these lines negotiated with the flow agreements as well.
Any regional will not get you to a major either. Just ask Mesa pilots, or better yet, their LEC. You've got a lot to learn still, but please don't base your decision off of trying to fly for multiple carriers at one place so that you can "learn their culture...."
08-05-2017, 03:28 AM
#29
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2008
Posts: 608
I bet you guys criticizing the AA WOs -- even if AA had the worst "culture" of the big three -- would immediately accept a job offer from AA if given the opportunity. Let's not pretend it's a surefire thing that we can pick & choose our favorite major carrier based on corporate culture.
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