CBreezy

Skywest isn't ALPA or union. If ALPA was to blame, even partly, it would be reflected in contact terms as you state. It is 100% the fault of major airline mgt.

Adlerdriver

I don't know if "brainwashed" is the best descriptor. I think there are a lot of factors in play. If you want to blame some of the "inertia" in the industry perpetuating the "regional" stereotype, I can agree with that and I sympathize.

But, here are some other frank and possibly harsh realities:

The aircraft "express" type airlines operate are usually smaller and therefore less productive on a per seat mile basis. Mainline typically pays their smaller aircraft pilots less than the larger more productive equipment, so there's precedent. If the mainline's smallest aircraft is an A319, that's still going to "out-seat" an RJ by at least 50%. AA's 319s hold 128. So, you got that going against you.

Hiring minimums are usually higher at a major airline. They pay more because the pilots they hire have the experience and the hours that airline wants. In this current environment, most likely, if you met or better yet, exceeded those qualifications, you'd already be working there. When I was a carpenter's apprentice with less experience than the rest of the guys working on the job, I didn't get paid as much as they did. I did the same job, sometimes worked harder than they did. Our employer valued their experience and since I had little, I had no way to command the same pay. That's just life as a new guy starting out in any field.

But, the main thing is that new guys, looking to get experience and willing to work for lower wages keep showing up. Not as many as years ago, hence the bonus money and up-tick in wages at many RJ airlines. The massive hiring at major airlines and the effects of the 1500 hour rule (if it stays) have finally forced these airlines to start paying to attract pilots. But if no one showed up to take these jobs (I know, unrealistic) they would have to make them even more attractive. If these sub-contractors were unable to fulfill their commitments, maybe the mainline would have to fold all that flying back into their airline. More mainline jobs is a good thing for everyone. I know that's all a pipe dream but it would work if it happened.

ORDinary

You are way off in my opinion. Are you familiar with the term "whipsaw?" Do a little research into the history of regionals. Plenty have tried to fight along the way but we've never had much if any leverage. Low pay at the regionals definitely didn't exist because of brainwashing. Had any of us gone to management 10 years ago and demanded the better pay we deserved we would've been laughed out of the room and have our flying replaced by regional airline b in a heartbeat. Lack of unity didn't help, but that isn't the same as an inferiority complex or whatever you're implying. Today market forces have thankfully pushed wages higher.

Here is an example of what happened when one regional tried to hold the line: https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/gojet/39975-gojet-tsa-history-lesson.html

AboveMins

I respectfully disagree. I've seen a ton of FOs with little to no PIC and little experience get the opportunity to go over to big leagues, while those of us with a lot more experience get left behind. The hiring managers have some goofy algorithm nowadays. I guess to them, feeding homeless kittens in a shelter is more valuable than exhibiting PIC level decision-making. Alas, it is what it is.

kevbo

Has anyone done a cost-benefit analysis of a gender reassignment? It seems like a small price to pay if it got you out of a regional fast enough.

Hacker15e

In my experience, unless you've actually laid eyes on the resume/application of those "little experience" FOs, then your statement isn't at all accurate.

There are lots of people who have experience, qualifications, etc, that don't get discussed in idle cockpit conversation, and which you'd never know about unless you specifically looked into it.

I am one of those regional FOs who got hired at a major "in front of" a number of Captains who thought I was less experienced simply because I'd been hired at a regional after them. More than one contacted me, asking what my "secret" was that helped me get hired so quickly and, in one guy's words, "out of seniority". When I sent them my resume, they seemed surprised to learn I was a retired military pilot with a ton of things on my resume that they had no idea about, and had been flying professionally since they were in elementary school.

My advice is, instead of raging at the machine -- because the only people that control this process are the folks at the majors who are inviting people for interviews and handing out CJOs -- is ask those "little experience" FOs for a copy of their application and their advice on what they did to get the call.

SonicFlyer

Actually not really... aviation is the most over regulated industry in the US because we are stuck with these progressive era legacy throwback regulations that are outdated and obsolete.

SonicFlyer

You obviously haven't run the numbers lately.

kevbo

I know, right now the futures so bright you need a welding mask. It is still a bit risky and/or overly time consuming if one lacks sponsorship. Regionals need to start at 60k before its economical for a poor kid to pursue.

John Carr

You took his blanket statement, and covered it with your own.

He's talking about the mid 20's RJ FO that doesn't even have 3000TT. And not any TPIC.

Except for Timmy Martins, are any of those retired mil guys with IE/EP/NATOPS/Standeval/safety/chief/multiple platforms flown experience types running around mid 20's RJ FO's with barely any flying experience? Let alone life experience? Didn't think so.....

It's happening more and more than the last 2 hiring waves/eras I got to be a part of and observe.

I've seen some of the names of the "4 month CA's" at DAL. Please forgive my "ignorance" of their application, but I KNOW SOME OF THEM. I'm not sure job fair attendance and all that (fake) volunteer stuff they put on their resume is going to make them a good MD captain......

Also, AboveMins has got to deal with the consequences/fallout of a system right now that, shall we say has been completely FUBAR'd by a certain HR rep over a bruised ego. And that's putting it very very nicely.........