freezingflyboy

First of all, hours do not make the man. It is what you DO during those hours that matter. All other things being equal, I would take the 135 cargo guy who has 1000 hours of flying boxes in a temperamental Baron or Cheyenne in all kinds of weather to all kinds of places over the guy who has 10,000 hours putting around in clear, blue skies in his 152. Just because some one has less experience does NOT mean they will work for less. Those pay rates are negotiated by the pilots already on property, not the new guys who just got hired. Don't believe me? Walk in to any airline out there with your 190 hours and tell them you will do the job for half. I'd like to know how that goes for you.

I'm not going to tell you not to write your op-ed and send it in to your local paper. By all means, do it. But the way to get better work rules and pay is to stay away from places that do not value your skills and contributions to the company's success (like Mesa) and to stand united as a pilot group when managements try to grab too much from the table.

FighterHayabusa

I'm not trying to argue that the guy with 10,000 hours in a 152 is better than a 1000 hour blimp pilot or whichever other apples to oranges comparison you want to make.

But do YOU feel you were a better pilot than you were when you were at 1/2 the time? 1/8th the time? If not, then how can you ask for more pay?

I'll make you a deal. If you can convince me I will be just as good at 200 hours as I would be at 1200 with CFII hours and Multi time under my belt, I'll take Mesa's pace program for 14k when I hit 200 for their guaranteed interview.

DMEarc

No one listen to ShaneJJ, he is a 19 year old 300 hour pilot that thinks he's hot sh*t.

Kid, grow up...Go study.

kalyx522

Yeah, most European and Asian airlines have cadet programs.. that is how they get most or many of their pilots.. that and the former military pilots.
It's completely different in those countries in terms of how things work, so it's not a fair comparison at all.

I'm familiar with the recruiting/training practices of a few overseas airlines, and they pick the few BRIGHTEST, most intelligent students... I mean like the top 1% or something like that. In Europe, flying is extremely expensive so there isn't much of a GA market like there is in the US... in Asia, there are hardly any flight schools... so pilot slots in both regions are rare and competitive. It's like not the US where literally anyone with $$$ or a cosigner can become a pilot. So you MUST be the best.
(I'm not trying to argue that you have to be a genius to fly an airplane... but that is one of the reasons why those overseas cadet programs work... because they pick the best candidates to begin with... smart and motivated.)

And training is wholly different too. I have a friend who instructs at IFTA, which trains newhires for ANA, EVA, etc. From day one, the students are trained to think, act and perform like airline pilots. It's all about procedures... One minor example, he told me that if you're taxiing and you deviate from the taxiway centerline even for one second you have to announce it (in specific terms, which I forgot.) All in all, it's pretty strict and rigorous. Many of us regular joes would not survive such training!
BTW, these cadet programs don't cram the training in 90 days, like some of the pilot programs we have here in the US... the airlines that I know of spend 2-3 years training their cadets.

FighterHayabusa

Then I'd ask him if he saw anything in the the last 2750 hours he never saw in his first 250 that made him a better pilot.

Joeshmoe

Absolutely but you are once again getting away from your original post that the flying public will give a rats a** how many hours the boobs up front have.
If you could run an airline based solely on the fact that you'd have much higher prices based on the fact that your crew was advertised to have higher than the average flight hours then you'd leave the rest of the airlines in the dust. Speaking of dust you might want to see if you can get your hands on some fairy dust to help bring this idea to fruition.

freezingflyboy

Not sure why you think its apples to oranges. Fine, you have two guys, one with 1500 hours flying freight in a Baron in hard IFR and the other with 15,000 hours flying his Baron in clear blue skies. Apples to apples enough for ya? Point was this: quality of time beats quantity of time any day of the week.

I wouldn't say I was better or worse. Different maybe. At 900 hours (1/2 my current TT) I was a Piper Warrior, Arrow and Seminole master. Flew those things 6-8 hours a day 5-6 days a week. Would I fly into known icing conditions? Absolutely not. Today, known icing is not that big a deal because the aircraft I fly can handle it but if I went out for a a joy ride in an Arrow or a 172 I'd probably kill myself.

At 200 hours you've learned the basics. It has nothing to do with being better or worse. Safer maybe because your experience will have increased and you will have developed a deeper level of knowledge about the how and why of how an airplane works. You might have learned a few tricks and scared yourself a few times from 200 hours to 1200 but the basic skills are the same. If that makes you better than I guess you're better.

Heres a tip you might want to take to heart (assuming you aren't some numbnut flame baiter who wandered over from flightinfo): don't go shooting your mouth off to a bunch of guys and girls who have been there and done that. You will find as you move through the aviation world that most pilots are humble among their peers and those that aren't probably should be.

shanejj

hmm...this guy has something against me

FighterHayabusa

I'm hardly shooting my mouth off. I still believe my original point is valid. I've called no one any names, even though I've been baited by several, including you. And I have the utmost respect for pilots with more experience than I.

As far as respect for people with more FORUM experience than I, well sorry, no, that hardly matters.

Joeshmoe

This is EXACTLY why a 190hr pilot (which you've admitted to already) should never even come NEAR a commercial aircraft, RJ or turboprop. Its the fact that you still haven't had the CR** scared out of you and stick to your naive idea that you THINK is correct, yet you ignore experienced pilots telling you otherwise. Thanks for BLATENTLY making all our points bud.