Public demand for more experienced pilots
03-07-2007, 11:44 AM
#101
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2005
Position: 170 babysitter
Posts: 417
Surely you see the paradoxical nature of what you are asking me to do. You are telling me not to think that more time makes a safer, more knowledgeable pilot. And I'm to believe you because you are my elder (in time I assume, since that is the only thing I've revealed to you) and therefore a safer, more knowledgeable pilot.
You still really haven't made clear to me whether you think 190 hours is enough to fly passengers from the right seat at a regional airline, so I may be debating you unnecessarily
You still really haven't made clear to me whether you think 190 hours is enough to fly passengers from the right seat at a regional airline, so I may be debating you unnecessarily
The reason is the public is naive and this naive public not only puts faith in the airlines that they hire competent pilots but they probably don't have a clue what constitutes "high time" for a pilot. We all know very well what is low time vs. high time but 1000TT to the flying public may seem like a ton of time. Ask the little old lady in row 12 what she thinks is alot of flight time and I'm sure thats what you will hear.
In addition the public sees thousands and thousands of flights take-off and land every day, day in and day out without incident with the very same low time pilots that are now flying so they tend to take a percentage attitude that accidents in an aircraft still seem rare. Take all of this naive knowledge that the flying public has and it doesn't take a Wharton MBA to see why its all about PRICE. The only ones who give a rats a** about pilot time are PILOTS.
This is what I took issue with. Its assinine to think sending letters to the editor about "making the public aware" of pilot flight hours is going to accomplish anything. As DME stated in his post, its the free market economy of supply vs. demand that will ultimately and DOES ultimately dictate that price, not flight hours, will win over the buying public.
03-07-2007, 12:44 PM
#103
Banned
Joined APC: Jan 2007
Posts: 229
[quote=Ftrooppilot;129777][quote=rickair7777;129702]
"The large majority of fighter pilots are over thirty...
4-5 years of college: age 23
1 Year of Pool/OCS: Age 24
3 Years UPT/RAG/FRS: Age 27"
SEE:
http://www.wantscheck.com/PilotSlotR...5/Default.aspx
Average age of entering UPT is 23. Most are AFROTC College or USAF Academy graduates. Average age graduating UPT is 24 and they already have one year commissioned service. F-16 / F-15 /C-17 / B-52 / etc.etc. and survival training takes another year and they are operational at about age 25.
Been there, done that, got the T-SHirt.
I graduated from UPT at age 26. When I had 750 hrs total time (age 27) I was an Instructor Pilot in Vietnam. At 1500 hrs total time (age 28) I was in command of a C-141 flying worldwide. AT 2000 hrs (age 29) I was flying photo reconniassance in a pressure suit above 70,000 ft. At age 31 the USAF sent me back to college and it was staff & command positions after that. My case was not that unusual. quote]
Sled Driver?
"The large majority of fighter pilots are over thirty...
4-5 years of college: age 23
1 Year of Pool/OCS: Age 24
3 Years UPT/RAG/FRS: Age 27"
SEE:
http://www.wantscheck.com/PilotSlotR...5/Default.aspx
Average age of entering UPT is 23. Most are AFROTC College or USAF Academy graduates. Average age graduating UPT is 24 and they already have one year commissioned service. F-16 / F-15 /C-17 / B-52 / etc.etc. and survival training takes another year and they are operational at about age 25.
Been there, done that, got the T-SHirt.
I graduated from UPT at age 26. When I had 750 hrs total time (age 27) I was an Instructor Pilot in Vietnam. At 1500 hrs total time (age 28) I was in command of a C-141 flying worldwide. AT 2000 hrs (age 29) I was flying photo reconniassance in a pressure suit above 70,000 ft. At age 31 the USAF sent me back to college and it was staff & command positions after that. My case was not that unusual. quote]
Sled Driver?
03-07-2007, 01:45 PM
#104
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Jan 2007
Position: 150 left seat if I'm lucky
Posts: 172
You may be. I don't think a 190hr pilot should touch one switch inside a commercial airliner. Yes, apparently we are in agreement on that. Lets go back to my first post to you on this topic :
The reason is the public is naive and this naive public not only puts faith in the airlines that they hire competent pilots but they probably don't have a clue what constitutes "high time" for a pilot. We all know very well what is low time vs. high time but 1000TT to the flying public may seem like a ton of time. Ask the little old lady in row 12 what she thinks is alot of flight time and I'm sure thats what you will hear.
In addition the public sees thousands and thousands of flights take-off and land every day, day in and day out without incident with the very same low time pilots that are now flying so they tend to take a percentage attitude that accidents in an aircraft still seem rare. Take all of this naive knowledge that the flying public has and it doesn't take a Wharton MBA to see why its all about PRICE. The only ones who give a rats a** about pilot time are PILOTS.
This is what I took issue with. Its assinine to think sending letters to the editor about "making the public aware" of pilot flight hours is going to accomplish anything. As DME stated in his post, its the free market economy of supply vs. demand that will ultimately and DOES ultimately dictate that price, not flight hours, will win over the buying public.
The reason is the public is naive and this naive public not only puts faith in the airlines that they hire competent pilots but they probably don't have a clue what constitutes "high time" for a pilot. We all know very well what is low time vs. high time but 1000TT to the flying public may seem like a ton of time. Ask the little old lady in row 12 what she thinks is alot of flight time and I'm sure thats what you will hear.
In addition the public sees thousands and thousands of flights take-off and land every day, day in and day out without incident with the very same low time pilots that are now flying so they tend to take a percentage attitude that accidents in an aircraft still seem rare. Take all of this naive knowledge that the flying public has and it doesn't take a Wharton MBA to see why its all about PRICE. The only ones who give a rats a** about pilot time are PILOTS.
This is what I took issue with. Its assinine to think sending letters to the editor about "making the public aware" of pilot flight hours is going to accomplish anything. As DME stated in his post, its the free market economy of supply vs. demand that will ultimately and DOES ultimately dictate that price, not flight hours, will win over the buying public.
The problem with your free market argument is airlines are not paying pilots like they are in demand yet. Instead of lowering their standards and getting low time guys who will accept any pay rate in hopes of better pay later, they should be raising pay so that the 32 year old part time CFII with an office job and 1200 hours says, "hey, maybe I'll go be a full time pilot now that I can make an actual living at it".
Certain airlines may not ever try to attract and retain good, safe pilots through good pay and benefits. Those should be exposed and shunned.
Attract quality, not quantity.
03-07-2007, 01:48 PM
#105
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Jan 2007
Position: 150 left seat if I'm lucky
Posts: 172
You may be. I don't think a 190hr pilot should touch one switch inside a commercial airliner. Yes, apparently we are in agreement on that. Lets go back to my first post to you on this topic :
The reason is the public is naive and this naive public not only puts faith in the airlines that they hire competent pilots but they probably don't have a clue what constitutes "high time" for a pilot. We all know very well what is low time vs. high time but 1000TT to the flying public may seem like a ton of time. Ask the little old lady in row 12 what she thinks is alot of flight time and I'm sure thats what you will hear.
In addition the public sees thousands and thousands of flights take-off and land every day, day in and day out without incident with the very same low time pilots that are now flying so they tend to take a percentage attitude that accidents in an aircraft still seem rare. Take all of this naive knowledge that the flying public has and it doesn't take a Wharton MBA to see why its all about PRICE. The only ones who give a rats a** about pilot time are PILOTS.
This is what I took issue with. Its assinine to think sending letters to the editor about "making the public aware" of pilot flight hours is going to accomplish anything. As DME stated in his post, its the free market economy of supply vs. demand that will ultimately and DOES ultimately dictate that price, not flight hours, will win over the buying public.
The reason is the public is naive and this naive public not only puts faith in the airlines that they hire competent pilots but they probably don't have a clue what constitutes "high time" for a pilot. We all know very well what is low time vs. high time but 1000TT to the flying public may seem like a ton of time. Ask the little old lady in row 12 what she thinks is alot of flight time and I'm sure thats what you will hear.
In addition the public sees thousands and thousands of flights take-off and land every day, day in and day out without incident with the very same low time pilots that are now flying so they tend to take a percentage attitude that accidents in an aircraft still seem rare. Take all of this naive knowledge that the flying public has and it doesn't take a Wharton MBA to see why its all about PRICE. The only ones who give a rats a** about pilot time are PILOTS.
This is what I took issue with. Its assinine to think sending letters to the editor about "making the public aware" of pilot flight hours is going to accomplish anything. As DME stated in his post, its the free market economy of supply vs. demand that will ultimately and DOES ultimately dictate that price, not flight hours, will win over the buying public.
BTW - the singlehandedly change the world part of my original post was tongue-in-cheek. Usually that doesn't have to be explained but ...
03-07-2007, 02:00 PM
#106
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2005
Position: 170 babysitter
Posts: 417
Again, great theory but the days of quality in the airline industry are over. That means service, customers, employees, etc. You're probably too young to remember but there was actually a time when even a ramp rat could actually make enough to make a decent living (was a pretty upstanding person too), the customers were respectable folks as well and the airlines actually provided exemplary service. Compare that now to gang fights on the ramp amoungst workers (SEATAC), the bus people we fly around on a daily basis and now having to be charged for everything from wanting a bulkhead/exitrow seat to being charged for ONE extra piece of luggage. Then again this is all pretty much a direct reflection on society as a whole.
So if everything else is attracting the lowest quality, why would you expect such a high level of discernment amoungst the incoming pilots?
So if everything else is attracting the lowest quality, why would you expect such a high level of discernment amoungst the incoming pilots?
03-07-2007, 03:00 PM
#109
Line Holder
Joined APC: Dec 2006
Posts: 26
03-07-2007, 03:40 PM
#110
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Jan 2007
Position: 150 left seat if I'm lucky
Posts: 172
Is that right. Well you've caught me! I have aspirations to be the King of the World and you've heard the announcement right here in this thread!
I've got a little story for you, more of a narrative I guess. My main character is say "Joe S". He has a wife named, oh... Mary. Joe's nemesis is um.... Starman.
Mary enters the room to find Joe in his boxers and T-shirt, a prominent grape juice stain on his right leg. Mary is feeling frisky and nuzzles up to Joe. Joe says, "not now honey, I've got to flame a newb!". Joe cracks his fingers and begins to type. Mary asks, "what does flame a newb mean, honey?". He answers, "that's where someone says something dumb and we that know better call him names and stuff. Here, check it out!"
Mary reads the thread. She smiles occasionally at the wit and charm of Starman. She lets herself fantasize about a romantic liaison with Starman. She looks at her husband's eager face.
"Do you realize that in your haste you've been flaming him for making points that you actually agree with?" she asks.
Mary watches as her husband's eyes glaze over.
"I mean, he says it right here, and again here, and then you counter with the same point? And here, you actually admit it in print!"
Mary looks at the man she married, hoping for a glint of recognition. Joe thinks about cheese.
"Did you see here where I called him "kid"?" he says.
Mary shakes her head and leaves the room. Joe plays Europe's Final Countdown to get in the flaming zone.
I've got a little story for you, more of a narrative I guess. My main character is say "Joe S". He has a wife named, oh... Mary. Joe's nemesis is um.... Starman.
Mary enters the room to find Joe in his boxers and T-shirt, a prominent grape juice stain on his right leg. Mary is feeling frisky and nuzzles up to Joe. Joe says, "not now honey, I've got to flame a newb!". Joe cracks his fingers and begins to type. Mary asks, "what does flame a newb mean, honey?". He answers, "that's where someone says something dumb and we that know better call him names and stuff. Here, check it out!"
Mary reads the thread. She smiles occasionally at the wit and charm of Starman. She lets herself fantasize about a romantic liaison with Starman. She looks at her husband's eager face.
"Do you realize that in your haste you've been flaming him for making points that you actually agree with?" she asks.
Mary watches as her husband's eyes glaze over.
"I mean, he says it right here, and again here, and then you counter with the same point? And here, you actually admit it in print!"
Mary looks at the man she married, hoping for a glint of recognition. Joe thinks about cheese.
"Did you see here where I called him "kid"?" he says.
Mary shakes her head and leaves the room. Joe plays Europe's Final Countdown to get in the flaming zone.
Last edited by FighterHayabusa; 03-07-2007 at 03:47 PM. Reason: mispelled "breifly" the last time I said my reason for editing was to remove the word "breifly"
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