Principles: LCC vs Legacy
04-29-2017, 07:09 AM
#21
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Joined APC: Mar 2014
Posts: 3,227
I've said this many times. You will most likely enjoy a more stable, more rewarding career at a ULCC or LCC such as Spirit or jetBlue.
JetBlue's growth last year was around 10% IIRC. AA was flat. In one of the best economic markets for airlines in DECADES.
I think Delta is a good bet. Their management is excellent and has a multi-decade long history of making sound conservative decisions.
Neither United nor AA have good management. They are riding the wave of low fuel prices.
Money won't make you happy beyond a certain point.
JetBlue's growth last year was around 10% IIRC. AA was flat. In one of the best economic markets for airlines in DECADES.
I think Delta is a good bet. Their management is excellent and has a multi-decade long history of making sound conservative decisions.
Neither United nor AA have good management. They are riding the wave of low fuel prices.
Money won't make you happy beyond a certain point.
04-29-2017, 07:17 AM
#22
Prime Minister/Moderator
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: Engines Turn Or People Swim
Posts: 40,090
I've said this many times. You will most likely enjoy a more stable, more rewarding career at a ULCC or LCC such as Spirit or jetBlue.
JetBlue's growth last year was around 10% IIRC. AA was flat. In one of the best economic markets for airlines in DECADES.
I think Delta is a good bet. Their management is excellent and has a multi-decade long history of making sound conservative decisions.
Neither United nor AA have good management. They are riding the wave of low fuel prices.
Money won't make you happy beyond a certain point.
JetBlue's growth last year was around 10% IIRC. AA was flat. In one of the best economic markets for airlines in DECADES.
I think Delta is a good bet. Their management is excellent and has a multi-decade long history of making sound conservative decisions.
Neither United nor AA have good management. They are riding the wave of low fuel prices.
Money won't make you happy beyond a certain point.
Also LCC's are limited in that they can only serve city pairs which have enough traffic, and are mostly limited to domestic. A large part of the US population can only served effectively by hub-and-spoke...especially if they're going overseas.
Unless it's an opportunity to live in base, LCC's are mostly a plan B for younger pilots. If you're older then it's more of a wash.
04-29-2017, 07:22 AM
#23
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Joined APC: Mar 2014
Posts: 3,227
You're forgetting retirements...there aren't going to be a lot any time soon at any LCC.
Also LCC's are limited in that they can only serve city pairs which have enough traffic, and are mostly limited to domestic. A large part of the US population can only served effectively by hub-and-spoke...especially if they're going overseas.
Unless it's an opportunity to live in base, LCC's are mostly a plan B for younger pilots. If you're older then it's more of a wash.
Also LCC's are limited in that they can only serve city pairs which have enough traffic, and are mostly limited to domestic. A large part of the US population can only served effectively by hub-and-spoke...especially if they're going overseas.
Unless it's an opportunity to live in base, LCC's are mostly a plan B for younger pilots. If you're older then it's more of a wash.
The LCCs will continue to take market share from the legacies even in good times, and in bad the legacies will get slaughtered.
The data shows this. LCCs are growing significantly faster than the mature legacy market and are taking market share.
04-29-2017, 09:12 AM
#24
Prime Minister/Moderator
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: Engines Turn Or People Swim
Posts: 40,090
Retirements will just be furloughs from the top.
The LCCs will continue to take market share from the legacies even in good times, and in bad the legacies will get slaughtered.
The data shows this. LCCs are growing significantly faster than the mature legacy market and are taking market share.
The LCCs will continue to take market share from the legacies even in good times, and in bad the legacies will get slaughtered.
The data shows this. LCCs are growing significantly faster than the mature legacy market and are taking market share.
But again the LCCs can't serve much of America in a cost-effective manner without a hub-and-spoke model.
04-29-2017, 05:00 PM
#25
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Joined APC: Aug 2007
Posts: 2,013
If a LCC hires you first then I'd definitely consider it, as long as the commute isn't that bad. I made the jump to a LCC after six years at a regional. So far after almost one year I'm happy with my situation and decision. I have a wife that makes a good living for herself, so that move to a LCC was a little easier. If I was the sole breadwinner, my decision might have been different. Only you know what is best for you. I've seen it time and time again, people spend over a decade at a regional scratching and clawing to get that Legacy dream call, and either they get stuck at their regional or are still patiently waiting. Do what makes you and your family happy, this forum can't make that decision for you.
04-30-2017, 09:41 AM
#27
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Joined APC: Jul 2013
Posts: 4,755
It was funny to read the UAL threads about Dr. (Dinky) Dao and how some drama queens thought their image was so vastly tarnished it could cause problems.
I'm a broken record here, but it doesn't matter if it's the legacy or their outsourced lift provider du jour, the world keeps spinning....
04-30-2017, 06:48 PM
#28
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Joined APC: May 2013
Posts: 2,594
In the age of social media and with the recent customer service debacles lately, do you think companies like Jetblue and Southwest, which offer a consistent high value product, are in a better position to succeed than legacies that use lower quality aircraft and poorly paid subcontractors?
Do you think it's better in principle, as a pilot, to go for the money and work for a company that pays slightly higher airbus rates, but then pays regional contractors 50% of the appropriate wage to operate half of their flights? Or.. is it better to work for a company that pays less than the legacy but does not contract out any of their flying?
Yes, I like money just like everybody else. I'm just curious if anyone actually thinks about the whole picture before they decide that the big money legacies are the best thing out there right now for the profession.
Do you think it's better in principle, as a pilot, to go for the money and work for a company that pays slightly higher airbus rates, but then pays regional contractors 50% of the appropriate wage to operate half of their flights? Or.. is it better to work for a company that pays less than the legacy but does not contract out any of their flying?
Yes, I like money just like everybody else. I'm just curious if anyone actually thinks about the whole picture before they decide that the big money legacies are the best thing out there right now for the profession.
05-01-2017, 11:12 AM
#29
Prime Minister/Moderator
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: Engines Turn Or People Swim
Posts: 40,090
Since deregulation, a gazillion LCC's have popped up and only a handful survived.
In that time only two legacies have failed (EAL, Pan Am).
There have been plenty of mergers all around.
Worth noting SWA existed well before deregulation.
In that time only two legacies have failed (EAL, Pan Am).
There have been plenty of mergers all around.
Worth noting SWA existed well before deregulation.
Last edited by rickair7777; 05-01-2017 at 11:27 AM.
05-01-2017, 01:01 PM
#30
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Joined APC: Mar 2014
Posts: 3,227
Yes, while they exist in name, they are shells of their former selves. Where did those jobs go? SWA/jetBlue mostly. Spirit. Etc.
Would you rather be at the bottom of a stagnant/shrinking place where you live and die by seniority or at a company that is growing rapidly that has a multi-decade year history of growth above GDP?
Don't look at the top pay rates - it's likely you'll never see them.
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