2StgTurbine

Time a 121 new hire spends in training: 3 months

Time an Air Force pilot spends in just UPT 5 months

High end cost of a level D simulator: $4 million

Cost of a T-6 II: $4.2 million

Time a 121 new hire spends in the sim: 40 hours

Time an Air Force pilot flies and actual T-6: 90 hours


UPT is just one part of military flight training, and flying a T-6 costs way more than operating a sim. The military industrial complex is not known for being cost effective, but airlines are known for being cheap and compressing training to the minimum the FARs allow.

Even if you want to compare apples to oranges and tally up the cost it would take a civilian to go from 0 to airlines:

ERAU education: $250,000
737 type rating: $10,000
Gulfstream 550 type rating (just for fun): $50,000
Total cost: $310,000

The cost the DOD states to send 1 Air Force pilot to basic flight training: $1 million

gloopy

Ha, I totally admitted you're right. Military flight training is the same as any civilian training in cost, time and success rates. Exactly the same. No difference. 650K-ish for (essentially) gray airliners and 2.5M-ish for fighter pilots is pretty much exactly what it costs to get a CFI and an airline type rating. Everyone knows that.

Iceberg

Thanks you. I appreciate the data. I didn't want to argue with señor gloopy's facts, he just didn't have anything to back up his statements. I appreciate you digging it up and laying it out. I do wish I could have gotten the just for fun Gulfstream rating, though. I knew something was missing..

Iceberg

Where did I say that? Thanks for saying I'm right but you are agreeing with something that I didn't claim. All I stated was that you never back up your claims. Which you still haven't. I could go ahead and make dramatic statements about how you're major airline job and my regional airline job are exactly the same too, but we both know they aren't because of the clear difference in intelligence required. Everyone knows that. (Cute little emoji to make you feel stupid)

Avroman

This is all fine and well... Let's look at a little more of a realistic comparison. Let's take a military pilot that has been qualified (start the clock from when released to fly whatever fighter/attack plane of your choice) 7 years, let's then take the regional airline pilot that has been flying a CRJ/ERJ for the last 7 years. Who would most likely have the easier time moving to (pick your major airline B737/A320) FO? I can tell you 99 out of 100 it will be that regional pilot that is already used to pace and quirks of a place like LGA or ORD, already used to ramp control and ops and maintenance procedures in the 121 world, already used to ACARS and RNAV arrivals. Is that fighter pilot a better "stick and rudder" pilot, maybe a little bit, but I'd bet most regional pilots are plenty good enough with the added benefit of already working in the 121 airline environment.

gloopy

The "facts" that the guy above posted not only took 2 seconds to google, but they are simply part of common knowledge of anyone I've ever met in the industry. Not everyone knows the exact costs and timelines etc, but the general nature of it is something I've never even seen anyone attempt to challenge, because its so incredibly well known. That's my point. If you say the world is flat, IMO its more than sufficient to say no, its not, and that's an established fact. If you then challenge for proof and facts and ask "how many times have you been in space? Answer my question!" that doesn't mean you're right or that you even have a valid point about it, nor is it a valid challenge to drag someone else in on those terms because the basic premise is just ridiculous.

As for your implied little dig about projecting arrogance my way (and towards all the "major" airline pilots out there) as part of some contrived internal divide because you possibly feel that others look down on you or something, I don't accept the premise in the first place. I've always said that regional pilots work hard, frequently with less internal support, usually with more legs per day with likely less rest on average due to leaner contractual work rules and all that.

I also didn't say mil pilots were better than civ pilots, other than to say at the 250-ish hour mark they are on average IMO, but that goes away in the long run anyway, to the point that you can't really tell the difference, and since 250 hour airline pilots aren't a thing anymore anyway, it doesn't really even matter.

jethikoki

I would guess that landing on a pitching deck at night in a storm must take a higher skill level that many don't have.

HeyOneTaco

Is this a thread about "career progression" to Delta, or a urinitating competition between mil and civ experience?

msprj2

I've probably flown with some of these button pushers and I doubt any of them are "aces"

WhiskeyKilo

"rj, final, call the ball"

"roger ball! 5.7"