Which AA regional to choose?
03-14-2017, 06:36 AM
#32
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2014
Posts: 744
Now for a contrary opinion, likely to make the flow-aid drinkers heads explode.
If you want to significantly DELAY your employment at a major airline, ...... go ahead and join a regional airline which has a "flow" or other preferential hiring agreement.
For example, if you would like to eventually be employed at American but you don't want to be employed at American for the next 10 - 12 years, join one of their wholey-owned regionals, (PDT, PSA or ENV), knowing that very few pilots who are currently employed at PDT, PSA, or ENV are being hired at mainline AA, outside of the flow. Yes, I know that their recruiters at ENV, PDT, and/or PSA are telling you that you'll flow to mainline inside of 6 years but if you ask any pilot who works at an AA wholey-owned, (and assuming they're willing to be truthful with you and not simply trying to get you in the door so that THEY can eventually upgrade) they will tell you that the 5 - 6 year flow being sold by the recruiters is bullshlt.
Similarly, if you have your sights set on Delta, but want to spend 10 years waiting for your turn to simply *INTERVIEW* at Delta,......... go to Endeavor because when Delta's hiring managers see "Endeavor" on your resume' they're going to set it aside and make you wait your turn..
Same applies to United. Join Commutair and plan to wait 7-10 years for your turn to have that guaranteed INTERVIEW.
Now perhaps the better/quicker route to any three of the majors, is to hire-in at one of the regionals who do NOT have a "waiting list", (PDT, PSA, ENV, Endeavor, or Commutair). Then, in about 2 years, you can move-on to one of the L.C.C.s (Spirit, Frontier, Allegiant, JetBlue) or contract cargo carriers, (ABX, Atlas, Southern, Kalitta, etc.). Then, after a year of proving that you can safely maneuver an airbus around the country or push a 767 around the globe you'll be a competitive and attractive candidate at ANY of the THREE majors. Aaaaaaaaand,........... hiring you won't have a detrimental affect on their own (AA, DL, or UA) regional feed.
A lot of guys will tell you that having a flow or a preferential interviewing arrangement is "nice to have in the back pocket". I happen to think that line of thinking is deeply flawed. In my opinion, getting hired at one of these "flow" or "prefential hiring" airlines severely LIMITS your ability to move-on to one of the three major airlines within 5 - 10 years, if that is, in fact your goal. And think about it; if the flow/SSP is such a great thing,......... why is it always kept in the BACK POCKET?!?!?
And, no I'm not a recruiter for one of the non-flowing/non-S.S.P. airlines. I'm simply a line pilot at one of the wholey-owned airlines.
If you want to significantly DELAY your employment at a major airline, ...... go ahead and join a regional airline which has a "flow" or other preferential hiring agreement.
For example, if you would like to eventually be employed at American but you don't want to be employed at American for the next 10 - 12 years, join one of their wholey-owned regionals, (PDT, PSA or ENV), knowing that very few pilots who are currently employed at PDT, PSA, or ENV are being hired at mainline AA, outside of the flow. Yes, I know that their recruiters at ENV, PDT, and/or PSA are telling you that you'll flow to mainline inside of 6 years but if you ask any pilot who works at an AA wholey-owned, (and assuming they're willing to be truthful with you and not simply trying to get you in the door so that THEY can eventually upgrade) they will tell you that the 5 - 6 year flow being sold by the recruiters is bullshlt.
Similarly, if you have your sights set on Delta, but want to spend 10 years waiting for your turn to simply *INTERVIEW* at Delta,......... go to Endeavor because when Delta's hiring managers see "Endeavor" on your resume' they're going to set it aside and make you wait your turn..
Same applies to United. Join Commutair and plan to wait 7-10 years for your turn to have that guaranteed INTERVIEW.
Now perhaps the better/quicker route to any three of the majors, is to hire-in at one of the regionals who do NOT have a "waiting list", (PDT, PSA, ENV, Endeavor, or Commutair). Then, in about 2 years, you can move-on to one of the L.C.C.s (Spirit, Frontier, Allegiant, JetBlue) or contract cargo carriers, (ABX, Atlas, Southern, Kalitta, etc.). Then, after a year of proving that you can safely maneuver an airbus around the country or push a 767 around the globe you'll be a competitive and attractive candidate at ANY of the THREE majors. Aaaaaaaaand,........... hiring you won't have a detrimental affect on their own (AA, DL, or UA) regional feed.
A lot of guys will tell you that having a flow or a preferential interviewing arrangement is "nice to have in the back pocket". I happen to think that line of thinking is deeply flawed. In my opinion, getting hired at one of these "flow" or "prefential hiring" airlines severely LIMITS your ability to move-on to one of the three major airlines within 5 - 10 years, if that is, in fact your goal. And think about it; if the flow/SSP is such a great thing,......... why is it always kept in the BACK POCKET?!?!?
And, no I'm not a recruiter for one of the non-flowing/non-S.S.P. airlines. I'm simply a line pilot at one of the wholey-owned airlines.
Last edited by Slick111; 03-14-2017 at 06:59 AM.
03-14-2017, 07:03 AM
#33
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Posts: 336
Now for a contrary opinion, likely to make the flow-aid drinkers heads explode.
If you want to significantly DELAY your employment at a major airline, ...... go ahead and join a regional airline which has a "flow" or other preferential hiring agreement.
For example, if you would like to eventually be employed at American but you don't want to be employed at American for the next 10 - 12 years, join one of their wholey-owned regionals, (PDT, PSA or ENV), knowing that very few pilots who are currently employed at PDT, PSA, or ENV are being hired at mainline AA, outside of the flow. Yes, I know that their recruiters are telling you that you'll flow to mainline inside of 6 years but if you ask any pilot who works at an AA wholey-owned, (and if they're willing to be truthful with you and not simply trying to get you in the door so that THEY can eventually upgrade) they will tell you that the 5 - 6 year flow being sold by the recruiters is bullshlt.
Similarly, if you have your sights set on Delta, but want to spend 10 years waiting for your turn to simply *INTERVIEW* at Delta,......... go to Endeavor because when Delta's hiring managers see "Endeavor" on your resume' they're going to set it aside and make you wait your turn..
Same applies to United. Join Commutair and plan to wait 7-10 years for your guaranteed INTERVIEW.
Now perhaps the better/quicker route to any three of the majors, is to hire-in at one of the regionals who do NOT have a "waiting list", (PDT, PSA, ENV, ENDeavor, or Commutair). Then, in about 2 years, you can move-on to one of the L.C.C.s (Spirit, Frontier, Allegiant, JetBlue) or contract cargo carriers, (ABX, Atlas, Southern, Kalitta, etc.). Then, after a year of proving that you can safely maneuver an airbus around the country or push a 767 around the globe you'll be a competitive and attractive candidate at ANY of the THREE majors. Aaaaaaaaand,........... hiring you won't have a detrimental affect on their own (AA, DL, or UA) regional feed.
A lot of guys will tell you that having a flow or a preferential interviewing arrangement is "nice to have in the back pocket". I happen to think that line of thinking is deeply flawed. In my opinion, getting hired at one of these "flow" or "prefential hiring" airlines severely LIMITS your ability to move-on to one of the three major airlines within 5 - 10 years,.......... if that is, in fact your goal.
And, no I'm not a recruiter for one of the non-flowing/non-S.S.P. airlines. I'm simply a line pilot at one of the wholey-owned airlines.
If you want to significantly DELAY your employment at a major airline, ...... go ahead and join a regional airline which has a "flow" or other preferential hiring agreement.
For example, if you would like to eventually be employed at American but you don't want to be employed at American for the next 10 - 12 years, join one of their wholey-owned regionals, (PDT, PSA or ENV), knowing that very few pilots who are currently employed at PDT, PSA, or ENV are being hired at mainline AA, outside of the flow. Yes, I know that their recruiters are telling you that you'll flow to mainline inside of 6 years but if you ask any pilot who works at an AA wholey-owned, (and if they're willing to be truthful with you and not simply trying to get you in the door so that THEY can eventually upgrade) they will tell you that the 5 - 6 year flow being sold by the recruiters is bullshlt.
Similarly, if you have your sights set on Delta, but want to spend 10 years waiting for your turn to simply *INTERVIEW* at Delta,......... go to Endeavor because when Delta's hiring managers see "Endeavor" on your resume' they're going to set it aside and make you wait your turn..
Same applies to United. Join Commutair and plan to wait 7-10 years for your guaranteed INTERVIEW.
Now perhaps the better/quicker route to any three of the majors, is to hire-in at one of the regionals who do NOT have a "waiting list", (PDT, PSA, ENV, ENDeavor, or Commutair). Then, in about 2 years, you can move-on to one of the L.C.C.s (Spirit, Frontier, Allegiant, JetBlue) or contract cargo carriers, (ABX, Atlas, Southern, Kalitta, etc.). Then, after a year of proving that you can safely maneuver an airbus around the country or push a 767 around the globe you'll be a competitive and attractive candidate at ANY of the THREE majors. Aaaaaaaaand,........... hiring you won't have a detrimental affect on their own (AA, DL, or UA) regional feed.
A lot of guys will tell you that having a flow or a preferential interviewing arrangement is "nice to have in the back pocket". I happen to think that line of thinking is deeply flawed. In my opinion, getting hired at one of these "flow" or "prefential hiring" airlines severely LIMITS your ability to move-on to one of the three major airlines within 5 - 10 years,.......... if that is, in fact your goal.
And, no I'm not a recruiter for one of the non-flowing/non-S.S.P. airlines. I'm simply a line pilot at one of the wholey-owned airlines.
I'm not here to preach the flow/preferential interview but to dismiss it like it has no benefit is untrue. The fact is, not everyone will be called for an interview and certainly not everyone will be offered the job. We buy insurance for everything in life, why not our career?
03-14-2017, 07:27 AM
#34
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2014
Posts: 744
I'm not here to preach the flow/preferential interview but to dismiss it like it has no benefit is untrue. The fact is, not everyone will be called for an interview and certainly not everyone will be offered the job. We buy insurance for everything in life, why not our career?
03-14-2017, 07:29 AM
#35
Banned
Joined APC: Dec 2016
Position: Sitting
Posts: 223
Now for a contrary opinion, likely to make the flow-aid drinkers heads explode.
If you want to significantly DELAY your employment at a major airline, ...... go ahead and join a regional airline which has a "flow" or other preferential hiring agreement.
For example, if you would like to eventually be employed at American but you don't want to be employed at American for the next 10 - 12 years, join one of their wholey-owned regionals, (PDT, PSA or ENV), knowing that very few pilots who are currently employed at PDT, PSA, or ENV are being hired at mainline AA, outside of the flow. Yes, I know that their recruiters at ENV, PDT, and/or PSA are telling you that you'll flow to mainline inside of 6 years but if you ask any pilot who works at an AA wholey-owned, (and assuming they're willing to be truthful with you and not simply trying to get you in the door so that THEY can eventually upgrade) they will tell you that the 5 - 6 year flow being sold by the recruiters is bullshlt.
Similarly, if you have your sights set on Delta, but want to spend 10 years waiting for your turn to simply *INTERVIEW* at Delta,......... go to Endeavor because when Delta's hiring managers see "Endeavor" on your resume' they're going to set it aside and make you wait your turn..
Same applies to United. Join Commutair and plan to wait 7-10 years for your turn to have that guaranteed INTERVIEW.
Now perhaps the better/quicker route to any three of the majors, is to hire-in at one of the regionals who do NOT have a "waiting list", (PDT, PSA, ENV, Endeavor, or Commutair). Then, in about 2 years, you can move-on to one of the L.C.C.s (Spirit, Frontier, Allegiant, JetBlue) or contract cargo carriers, (ABX, Atlas, Southern, Kalitta, etc.). Then, after a year of proving that you can safely maneuver an airbus around the country or push a 767 around the globe you'll be a competitive and attractive candidate at ANY of the THREE majors. Aaaaaaaaand,........... hiring you won't have a detrimental affect on their own (AA, DL, or UA) regional feed.
A lot of guys will tell you that having a flow or a preferential interviewing arrangement is "nice to have in the back pocket". I happen to think that line of thinking is deeply flawed. In my opinion, getting hired at one of these "flow" or "prefential hiring" airlines severely LIMITS your ability to move-on to one of the three major airlines within 5 - 10 years, if that is, in fact your goal. And think about it; if the flow/SSP is such a great thing,......... why is it always kept in the BACK POCKET?!?!?
And, no I'm not a recruiter for one of the non-flowing/non-S.S.P. airlines. I'm simply a line pilot at one of the wholey-owned airlines.
If you want to significantly DELAY your employment at a major airline, ...... go ahead and join a regional airline which has a "flow" or other preferential hiring agreement.
For example, if you would like to eventually be employed at American but you don't want to be employed at American for the next 10 - 12 years, join one of their wholey-owned regionals, (PDT, PSA or ENV), knowing that very few pilots who are currently employed at PDT, PSA, or ENV are being hired at mainline AA, outside of the flow. Yes, I know that their recruiters at ENV, PDT, and/or PSA are telling you that you'll flow to mainline inside of 6 years but if you ask any pilot who works at an AA wholey-owned, (and assuming they're willing to be truthful with you and not simply trying to get you in the door so that THEY can eventually upgrade) they will tell you that the 5 - 6 year flow being sold by the recruiters is bullshlt.
Similarly, if you have your sights set on Delta, but want to spend 10 years waiting for your turn to simply *INTERVIEW* at Delta,......... go to Endeavor because when Delta's hiring managers see "Endeavor" on your resume' they're going to set it aside and make you wait your turn..
Same applies to United. Join Commutair and plan to wait 7-10 years for your turn to have that guaranteed INTERVIEW.
Now perhaps the better/quicker route to any three of the majors, is to hire-in at one of the regionals who do NOT have a "waiting list", (PDT, PSA, ENV, Endeavor, or Commutair). Then, in about 2 years, you can move-on to one of the L.C.C.s (Spirit, Frontier, Allegiant, JetBlue) or contract cargo carriers, (ABX, Atlas, Southern, Kalitta, etc.). Then, after a year of proving that you can safely maneuver an airbus around the country or push a 767 around the globe you'll be a competitive and attractive candidate at ANY of the THREE majors. Aaaaaaaaand,........... hiring you won't have a detrimental affect on their own (AA, DL, or UA) regional feed.
A lot of guys will tell you that having a flow or a preferential interviewing arrangement is "nice to have in the back pocket". I happen to think that line of thinking is deeply flawed. In my opinion, getting hired at one of these "flow" or "prefential hiring" airlines severely LIMITS your ability to move-on to one of the three major airlines within 5 - 10 years, if that is, in fact your goal. And think about it; if the flow/SSP is such a great thing,......... why is it always kept in the BACK POCKET?!?!?
And, no I'm not a recruiter for one of the non-flowing/non-S.S.P. airlines. I'm simply a line pilot at one of the wholey-owned airlines.
03-14-2017, 07:38 AM
#36
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2014
Posts: 1,328
Now for a contrary opinion, likely to make the flow-aid drinkers heads explode.
If you want to significantly DELAY your employment at a major airline, ...... go ahead and join a regional airline which has a "flow" or other preferential hiring agreement.
For example, if you would like to eventually be employed at American but you don't want to be employed at American for the next 10 - 12 years, join one of their wholey-owned regionals, (PDT, PSA or ENV), knowing that very few pilots who are currently employed at PDT, PSA, or ENV are being hired at mainline AA, outside of the flow. Yes, I know that their recruiters at ENV, PDT, and/or PSA are telling you that you'll flow to mainline inside of 6 years but if you ask any pilot who works at an AA wholey-owned, (and assuming they're willing to be truthful with you and not simply trying to get you in the door so that THEY can eventually upgrade) they will tell you that the 5 - 6 year flow being sold by the recruiters is bullshlt.
Similarly, if you have your sights set on Delta, but want to spend 10 years waiting for your turn to simply *INTERVIEW* at Delta,......... go to Endeavor because when Delta's hiring managers see "Endeavor" on your resume' they're going to set it aside and make you wait your turn..
Same applies to United. Join Commutair and plan to wait 7-10 years for your turn to have that guaranteed INTERVIEW.
Now perhaps the better/quicker route to any three of the majors, is to hire-in at one of the regionals who do NOT have a "waiting list", (PDT, PSA, ENV, Endeavor, or Commutair). Then, in about 2 years, you can move-on to one of the L.C.C.s (Spirit, Frontier, Allegiant, JetBlue) or contract cargo carriers, (ABX, Atlas, Southern, Kalitta, etc.). Then, after a year of proving that you can safely maneuver an airbus around the country or push a 767 around the globe you'll be a competitive and attractive candidate at ANY of the THREE majors. Aaaaaaaaand,........... hiring you won't have a detrimental affect on their own (AA, DL, or UA) regional feed.
A lot of guys will tell you that having a flow or a preferential interviewing arrangement is "nice to have in the back pocket". I happen to think that line of thinking is deeply flawed. In my opinion, getting hired at one of these "flow" or "prefential hiring" airlines severely LIMITS your ability to move-on to one of the three major airlines within 5 - 10 years, if that is, in fact your goal. And think about it; if the flow/SSP is such a great thing,......... why is it always kept in the BACK POCKET?!?!?
And, no I'm not a recruiter for one of the non-flowing/non-S.S.P. airlines. I'm simply a line pilot at one of the wholey-owned airlines.
If you want to significantly DELAY your employment at a major airline, ...... go ahead and join a regional airline which has a "flow" or other preferential hiring agreement.
For example, if you would like to eventually be employed at American but you don't want to be employed at American for the next 10 - 12 years, join one of their wholey-owned regionals, (PDT, PSA or ENV), knowing that very few pilots who are currently employed at PDT, PSA, or ENV are being hired at mainline AA, outside of the flow. Yes, I know that their recruiters at ENV, PDT, and/or PSA are telling you that you'll flow to mainline inside of 6 years but if you ask any pilot who works at an AA wholey-owned, (and assuming they're willing to be truthful with you and not simply trying to get you in the door so that THEY can eventually upgrade) they will tell you that the 5 - 6 year flow being sold by the recruiters is bullshlt.
Similarly, if you have your sights set on Delta, but want to spend 10 years waiting for your turn to simply *INTERVIEW* at Delta,......... go to Endeavor because when Delta's hiring managers see "Endeavor" on your resume' they're going to set it aside and make you wait your turn..
Same applies to United. Join Commutair and plan to wait 7-10 years for your turn to have that guaranteed INTERVIEW.
Now perhaps the better/quicker route to any three of the majors, is to hire-in at one of the regionals who do NOT have a "waiting list", (PDT, PSA, ENV, Endeavor, or Commutair). Then, in about 2 years, you can move-on to one of the L.C.C.s (Spirit, Frontier, Allegiant, JetBlue) or contract cargo carriers, (ABX, Atlas, Southern, Kalitta, etc.). Then, after a year of proving that you can safely maneuver an airbus around the country or push a 767 around the globe you'll be a competitive and attractive candidate at ANY of the THREE majors. Aaaaaaaaand,........... hiring you won't have a detrimental affect on their own (AA, DL, or UA) regional feed.
A lot of guys will tell you that having a flow or a preferential interviewing arrangement is "nice to have in the back pocket". I happen to think that line of thinking is deeply flawed. In my opinion, getting hired at one of these "flow" or "prefential hiring" airlines severely LIMITS your ability to move-on to one of the three major airlines within 5 - 10 years, if that is, in fact your goal. And think about it; if the flow/SSP is such a great thing,......... why is it always kept in the BACK POCKET?!?!?
And, no I'm not a recruiter for one of the non-flowing/non-S.S.P. airlines. I'm simply a line pilot at one of the wholey-owned airlines.
03-14-2017, 07:59 AM
#38
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2016
Position: P-28
Posts: 151
The 10 to 12 years for the current guys that are flowing seems to be true based on what others have put out there. It also seems to be true that this timeline is going to be dropping over the next few years so that folks hired today will flow much sooner than 10 to 12 years. Will it be 5 or 6 years like the recruiters say? I have no idea, ask me again in 5 or 6 years.
I'm not a flow or a SSP cool aid drinker. The regional I picked was based on where the bases were, pay, upgrade time, and QOL. Is a flow a nice to have (in your back pocket), sure, but I wouldn't let that influence where you are going unless you feel you need it.
If you are worried about the flow hurting your chances at going to AA, then you could go to an independent carrier, but no matter where you go, things could change the very next day. Ask all the folks that have been living through working for Air Wisconsin this past year.
There are some carriers out there that most folks would warn you against. There are also a bunch of good carriers that are decent to work for and it really almost comes down to what is important to you. Listen to what the recruiters are putting out, but remember that it is their job to get new pilots into the classes, so they are going to paint the best case scenario picture that they can paint.
Best of luck in which ever airline you end up trying to get hired on with.
03-14-2017, 08:40 AM
#39
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2014
Posts: 744
If a pilot hires into PSA today, he/she will be about number 1300 on the seniority list. If 1/2 of the pilots above him/her bail out to Delta, United, Allegiant, FedEx, or anywhere else, that'll leave 650 pilots to flow BEFORE today's new-hire will flow. Additionally, contrary to the recruiters assertions, the flow at PSA will not increase above 5/month. It just won't. I could try to rationally explain that, but that's a completely different topic and I don't care to go that far into the weeds.
So let's do some math; 650 pilots/5 flows per month = 130 months or 10.8333333 years.
All I'm saying is that if a new-hire's ultimate goal is get hired at one particular major airline, (Delta, United, or American), he/she may want to think twice about choosing a regional that offers a flow or SSP because choosing a regional with a flow or SSP may actually DELAY their progression to their preferred major airline. Additionally, choosing a regional airline who has a flow or SSP will likely reduce or delay their chances of being an "off-the-street" hire at 1 of the 3 major airlines.
Yes, if a pilot believes that they may not be highly prized as an off-the-street candidate at their preferred major they may want to try to get in the door at a wholey-owned regional,...... and wait 10.8333333 years.
So let's do some math; 650 pilots/5 flows per month = 130 months or 10.8333333 years.
All I'm saying is that if a new-hire's ultimate goal is get hired at one particular major airline, (Delta, United, or American), he/she may want to think twice about choosing a regional that offers a flow or SSP because choosing a regional with a flow or SSP may actually DELAY their progression to their preferred major airline. Additionally, choosing a regional airline who has a flow or SSP will likely reduce or delay their chances of being an "off-the-street" hire at 1 of the 3 major airlines.
Yes, if a pilot believes that they may not be highly prized as an off-the-street candidate at their preferred major they may want to try to get in the door at a wholey-owned regional,...... and wait 10.8333333 years.
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