SKW CEO warns pilot shortage could lead...
03-16-2017, 01:27 PM
#291
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Joined APC: Apr 2015
Posts: 857
You have a very poor understanding about how the scope changes came about. You might also want to read and try and understand the RLA and how it governs negotiations. There is a reason ALPA is a association and not a union. The unions are each individual airline MEC. Collaboration is illegal.
https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/45/184
03-16-2017, 01:34 PM
#292
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Joined APC: Feb 2007
Posts: 2,556
03-16-2017, 02:25 PM
#294
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Joined APC: Apr 2015
Posts: 857
), because it would directly hurt other ALPA carriers. Instead, they promote the whipsawing of carriers at the regional level. How are regional pilots benefiting from being represented by that type of association? Can anyone answer?PSA pilots OK contract that brings more jets in exchange for concessions | Airlines | Dallas News
03-16-2017, 02:32 PM
#295
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Posts: 2,556
03-16-2017, 03:00 PM
#296
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Joined APC: Sep 2011
Position: lav dumper
Posts: 707
I sent Tim Canoll an email a few months back about the disconnect among ALPA national and basically said they are pretty ballsy by blasting us with emails to help Delta pilots picket for more money....while regional pilots are eating crumbs. I also asked why the RLA isn't a hot topic among ALPA and about a national seniority list. Here is his reponse:
I agree that pay and benefits in the regional segment of the airline industry are particularly low, especially for first officers, but it is important for us to support all segments of the industry. While I don’t know if you want to change airlines I do know that many of your fellow regional pilots want to work for a mainline airline as soon as possible and they support our efforts to advance pay, working conditions and benefits at those mainline airlines.
We have been making progress – admittedly not fast enough - in our collective efforts to improve the pay, working conditions and benefits for all fee-for-departure pilots. While the business environment is significantly more difficult in the regional industry then in other segments of the industry we will continue to do our best to make real improvements. We all wish ALPA could unilaterally change the fundamentals of the regional industry – making it more profitable – but that simply isn’t possible.
ALPA is a democratic organization and our system provides that the pilots of each airline set the bargaining priorities for their group. The national structure provides the resources and expertise to advance each pilot group’s objectives. All to often I hear members saying that the President should tell one pilot group or another how and what to bargain for while at the same time saying that “national" must stay away from their own decisions about bargaining. Ya can’t have it both ways.
It is highly unlikely that changes to the RLA will only be as ALPA desires. There are many organizations (and political parties) that also want to make changes to the RLA…and trust me, you wouldn’t like the changes they want. If we decide to attempt changes to the RLA we will also have to accept that the final outcome could be worse.
In the past ALPA has attempted to bargain for “retained years of service” for members if they change employers but we have been unable to achieve success. ALPA has also studied the practicality and desirability of a national seniority list multiple times and in each instance the governing bodies have not advance the idea.
ALPA never stands in the background, in fact we are the voice of the airline pilot profession across the globe. Each and every day we defend our profession and advance ALL of our members needs. If you want examples of our activities please read the Air Line Pilot Magazine.
I hope you will reconsider supporting your fellow ALPA pilots in the future
Captain Tim Canoll
President
I agree that pay and benefits in the regional segment of the airline industry are particularly low, especially for first officers, but it is important for us to support all segments of the industry. While I don’t know if you want to change airlines I do know that many of your fellow regional pilots want to work for a mainline airline as soon as possible and they support our efforts to advance pay, working conditions and benefits at those mainline airlines.
We have been making progress – admittedly not fast enough - in our collective efforts to improve the pay, working conditions and benefits for all fee-for-departure pilots. While the business environment is significantly more difficult in the regional industry then in other segments of the industry we will continue to do our best to make real improvements. We all wish ALPA could unilaterally change the fundamentals of the regional industry – making it more profitable – but that simply isn’t possible.
ALPA is a democratic organization and our system provides that the pilots of each airline set the bargaining priorities for their group. The national structure provides the resources and expertise to advance each pilot group’s objectives. All to often I hear members saying that the President should tell one pilot group or another how and what to bargain for while at the same time saying that “national" must stay away from their own decisions about bargaining. Ya can’t have it both ways.
It is highly unlikely that changes to the RLA will only be as ALPA desires. There are many organizations (and political parties) that also want to make changes to the RLA…and trust me, you wouldn’t like the changes they want. If we decide to attempt changes to the RLA we will also have to accept that the final outcome could be worse.
In the past ALPA has attempted to bargain for “retained years of service” for members if they change employers but we have been unable to achieve success. ALPA has also studied the practicality and desirability of a national seniority list multiple times and in each instance the governing bodies have not advance the idea.
ALPA never stands in the background, in fact we are the voice of the airline pilot profession across the globe. Each and every day we defend our profession and advance ALL of our members needs. If you want examples of our activities please read the Air Line Pilot Magazine.
I hope you will reconsider supporting your fellow ALPA pilots in the future
Captain Tim Canoll
President
03-16-2017, 03:00 PM
#297
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Joined APC: Apr 2015
Posts: 857
When you come back, please answer my earlier response to you below..
OK well I thought that's where you were going. Let's think this through. Why is the mainline's flying being done by someone who doesn't own it? Who voted yes to make that possible? The ALPA unions (particularly big carriers like United and Delta) voted in scope clauses that reduced future airline pilots' career earnings by half. Why did they do it? So their paychecks wouldn't take a hit during the tough times. They failed to see the future consequences, or worse, they didn't care as long as their paychecks were safe.
Fast-forward to today, ALPA seems to be pretty nonchalant regarding pilots at regional ALPA carriers receiving half the pay and benefits than those at major ALPA carriers. In fact, ALPA has made zero collective effort to undo their past mistake. Why not? Because you have to give something in order to gain something at the negotiating table. Mainline ALPA pilots don't want to lose anything for the sake of regional pilots, and that's their prerogative. Despite this, several regional carriers still pay ALPA dues and think that ALPA representation is in their best interests. Why?
After saying all this, why is it so unrealistic to suggest that non-ALPA representation would better serve regional pilots' interests?
Fast-forward to today, ALPA seems to be pretty nonchalant regarding pilots at regional ALPA carriers receiving half the pay and benefits than those at major ALPA carriers. In fact, ALPA has made zero collective effort to undo their past mistake. Why not? Because you have to give something in order to gain something at the negotiating table. Mainline ALPA pilots don't want to lose anything for the sake of regional pilots, and that's their prerogative. Despite this, several regional carriers still pay ALPA dues and think that ALPA representation is in their best interests. Why?
After saying all this, why is it so unrealistic to suggest that non-ALPA representation would better serve regional pilots' interests?
03-16-2017, 03:46 PM
#298
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Joined APC: May 2014
Position: 787 right
Posts: 504
I'm not sure ALPA representing regionals and majors are as big of a conflict of interest as I used to think. Also, many scope battles were decided on by a judge and not by a pilot vote. Before, when I was at Skywest, I used to think, "why should we be alpa, things are pretty good here..." Now that I'm at an Alpa carrier, I kind of think all us pilots need to stick together and we'd be a stronger force as one. Just my evolving opinion.
03-16-2017, 04:10 PM
#299
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Joined APC: Feb 2016
Posts: 1,237
Just, wrong... Delta doesn't fly the CRJ900 because it can be done cheaper by a contractor. It's simple business. Would you have a problem with mainline flying their own regional feed with 100+ seat aircraft?? It sounds like you actually support the regional model that was brought on by selling scope. Delta's CRJ900 rates show how grossly underpaid regional pilots are. Did you see their Y1 CA pay is $156/hr??!?
If ALPA believes that Delta CRJ900 pilots should top out at $170/hr, why isn't ALPA fighting for Endeavor pilots to get the same? Why is ALPA ok with such gross differences in contract rates? Why should Endeavor pilots want to be associated with ALPA while this is going on??
If ALPA believes that Delta CRJ900 pilots should top out at $170/hr, why isn't ALPA fighting for Endeavor pilots to get the same? Why is ALPA ok with such gross differences in contract rates? Why should Endeavor pilots want to be associated with ALPA while this is going on??
We will fly those as soon as Delta flys crj's
03-16-2017, 04:16 PM
#300
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Joined APC: Apr 2015
Posts: 857
I'm not sure ALPA representing regionals and majors are as big of a conflict of interest as I used to think. Also, many scope battles were decided on by a judge and not by a pilot vote. Before, when I was at Skywest, I used to think, "why should we be alpa, things are pretty good here..." Now that I'm at an Alpa carrier, I kind of think all us pilots need to stick together and we'd be a stronger force as one. Just my evolving opinion.
It's impossible for all pilots under ALPA to stick together. ALPA refuses to use any basic tools at its disposal to create general collaboration between the MECs. Even the most recent concessionary contract approved by ALPA (PSA
) was a whipsaw that directly led to aircraft being taken from one ALPA carrier to another, and to those other carriers being forced to take their own concessions. I agree that pilots should work harder to unite and become a stronger force. But given its history, do you think ALPA is the answer?
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