SKW CEO warns pilot shortage could lead...
03-11-2017, 06:01 AM
#181
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2014
Posts: 3,272
When my wife travels for business it's not unheard of for her to spend $50/dinner out. Breakfast is normally in the high 10's or low 20's.
Eating out on the road is expensive. It's why we get to deduct 80% of the difference between what the company pays us and what the government says is the bare minimum to spend (M&IE rate).
I do agree it's not compensation. But still money in the bank. I bring most of my food and typically spend $10-$15 on a 4-day, and fund my Roth IRA with the extra.
03-11-2017, 06:08 AM
#182
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2016
Posts: 1,237
Not really. No normal 9-5 job reimburses you for food you eat at home. Not many people would eat out all their meals if working locally either. The last time we even purchased food outside a grocery store was several months ago.
When my wife travels for business it's not unheard of for her to spend $50/dinner out. Breakfast is normally in the high 10's or low 20's.
Eating out on the road is expensive. It's why we get to deduct 80% of the difference between what the company pays us and what the government says is the bare minimum to spend (M&IE rate).
I do agree it's not compensation. But still money in the bank. I bring most of my food and typically spend $10-$15 on a 4-day, and fund my Roth IRA with the extra.
When my wife travels for business it's not unheard of for her to spend $50/dinner out. Breakfast is normally in the high 10's or low 20's.
Eating out on the road is expensive. It's why we get to deduct 80% of the difference between what the company pays us and what the government says is the bare minimum to spend (M&IE rate).
I do agree it's not compensation. But still money in the bank. I bring most of my food and typically spend $10-$15 on a 4-day, and fund my Roth IRA with the extra.
Ins, 401 match, vacation. It's not salary.
03-11-2017, 06:11 AM
#183
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2015
Posts: 857
Not really. No normal 9-5 job reimburses you for food you eat at home. Not many people would eat out all their meals if working locally either. The last time we even purchased food outside a grocery store was several months ago.
When my wife travels for business it's not unheard of for her to spend $50/dinner out. Breakfast is normally in the high 10's or low 20's.
Eating out on the road is expensive. It's why we get to deduct 80% of the difference between what the company pays us and what the government says is the bare minimum to spend (M&IE rate).
I do agree it's not compensation. But still money in the bank. I bring most of my food and typically spend $10-$15 on a 4-day, and fund my Roth IRA with the extra.
When my wife travels for business it's not unheard of for her to spend $50/dinner out. Breakfast is normally in the high 10's or low 20's.
Eating out on the road is expensive. It's why we get to deduct 80% of the difference between what the company pays us and what the government says is the bare minimum to spend (M&IE rate).
I do agree it's not compensation. But still money in the bank. I bring most of my food and typically spend $10-$15 on a 4-day, and fund my Roth IRA with the extra.
$50/dinner out is expensive. $10/dinner out is cheap. We get reimbursed an amount that is in-between. Whatever food you eat, whether it comes from home or is bought on the road, is paid for using the per-diem. Yes you can pocket the extra, but it's certainly not part of any salary or compensation. It is a reimbursement. That was the focus of the argument. You can't add it to your gross salary like that idiot 271c and boast like your airline is paying a higher salary than they really are.
03-11-2017, 06:27 AM
#184
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2016
Posts: 1,609
I'm glad you agree it's not compensation. But normal 9-5 jobs pay per-diem when you're on the road too. We just happen to be on the road more often.
$50/dinner out is expensive. $10/dinner out is cheap. We get reimbursed an amount that is in-between. Whatever food you eat, whether it comes from home or is bought on the road, is paid for using the per-diem. Yes you can pocket the extra, but it's certainly not part of any salary or compensation. It is a reimbursement. That was the focus of the argument. You can't add it to your gross salary like that idiot 271c and boast like your airline is paying a higher salary than they really are.
$50/dinner out is expensive. $10/dinner out is cheap. We get reimbursed an amount that is in-between. Whatever food you eat, whether it comes from home or is bought on the road, is paid for using the per-diem. Yes you can pocket the extra, but it's certainly not part of any salary or compensation. It is a reimbursement. That was the focus of the argument. You can't add it to your gross salary like that idiot 271c and boast like your airline is paying a higher salary than they really are.
03-11-2017, 06:34 AM
#185
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2015
Posts: 857
Yes Pedro the money goes into the bank...Just as fast as the food goes into your stomach. But that is not the point that is being argued....
03-11-2017, 06:39 AM
#186
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2015
Posts: 857
- First Officer Averages (Year 1): $40,400 (wages/base compensation) + $5,800 (per diem) + (up to) $12,500 (signing bonus) + $6,200 (benefits) = $64,900
$6,200 in benefits?? I'd love to see one of you bozos try to rationalize that one
03-11-2017, 07:02 AM
#187
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2016
Posts: 180
Benefits and per diem are an important part of any compensation package. The important thing is to be able to compare apples to apples. Pretty much any other full-time job will also pay per diem when you're on the road, because eating away from home is much more expensive then eating at home. Most people expect to be able to eat at a restaurant, not eat a 3 day old tuna sandwich they've had to bring with them on their business trip to Vegas.
Other full time jobs will also typically provide other benefits. It's unusual for people to convert their benefits into a monetary figure when discussing their compensation, so to be fair, either everyone needs to do it, or no one. The complaint with some of these advertisements is that they include benefits and per diem when that is not the standard, and that it's therefore misleading.
Other full time jobs will also typically provide other benefits. It's unusual for people to convert their benefits into a monetary figure when discussing their compensation, so to be fair, either everyone needs to do it, or no one. The complaint with some of these advertisements is that they include benefits and per diem when that is not the standard, and that it's therefore misleading.
03-11-2017, 07:25 AM
#188
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2014
Posts: 454
Dear Future Aviators,
I remember waking up from my very expensive (cheapest I could find) California apartment for a 6:00 am departure to LAX. The .9 flight was paid at $14.50 an hour. We then went to the hotel to rest until the last 10:00 pm departure with another .9 flight back to this wonderful California city. That was 17 hours per diem at $1.15 an hour.
Total compensation for the day was $45.65 for 17 hours away from base. Minus $2 hotel driver tip = $43.65 a day or $2.57 an hour.
Minimum wage back then was around $3.25 an hour? Yes, the wages have gone up in the past 30 years but inflation has also risen a good 500% as well!
The airline industry is abusive overall! The Regionals/Commuters have and always will depend on single, young, healthy pilots that can eat Top Ramen for a few years. It really is an indentured servitude industry. I sincerely hope the Regionals are making strides in improving pay and working conditions.. but I doubt it!
So after 30 years, I still enjoy flying but I won't miss it when I retire. I feel lucky my health is above average overall. I've commuted for 27 of those 30 years and I'm certainly not wealthy but I've been able to hold on to my first wife because we lived where she wanted to and not the disgusting cities most airline domiciles are located.
My suggestion is to ask around, do your research and know what you are getting into.
155mm "Standby!"
I remember waking up from my very expensive (cheapest I could find) California apartment for a 6:00 am departure to LAX. The .9 flight was paid at $14.50 an hour. We then went to the hotel to rest until the last 10:00 pm departure with another .9 flight back to this wonderful California city. That was 17 hours per diem at $1.15 an hour.
Total compensation for the day was $45.65 for 17 hours away from base. Minus $2 hotel driver tip = $43.65 a day or $2.57 an hour.
Minimum wage back then was around $3.25 an hour? Yes, the wages have gone up in the past 30 years but inflation has also risen a good 500% as well!
The airline industry is abusive overall! The Regionals/Commuters have and always will depend on single, young, healthy pilots that can eat Top Ramen for a few years. It really is an indentured servitude industry. I sincerely hope the Regionals are making strides in improving pay and working conditions.. but I doubt it!
So after 30 years, I still enjoy flying but I won't miss it when I retire. I feel lucky my health is above average overall. I've commuted for 27 of those 30 years and I'm certainly not wealthy but I've been able to hold on to my first wife because we lived where she wanted to and not the disgusting cities most airline domiciles are located.
My suggestion is to ask around, do your research and know what you are getting into.
155mm "Standby!"
Last edited by 155mm; 03-11-2017 at 07:57 AM.
03-11-2017, 07:54 AM
#189
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2015
Posts: 857
Benefits and per diem are an important part of any compensation package. The important thing is to be able to compare apples to apples. Pretty much any other full-time job will also pay per diem when you're on the road, because eating away from home is much more expensive then eating at home. Most people expect to be able to eat at a restaurant, not eat a 3 day old tuna sandwich they've had to bring with them on their business trip to Vegas.
Other full time jobs will also typically provide other benefits. It's unusual for people to convert their benefits into a monetary figure when discussing their compensation, so to be fair, either everyone needs to do it, or no one. The complaint with some of these advertisements is that they include benefits and per diem when that is not the standard, and that it's therefore misleading.
Other full time jobs will also typically provide other benefits. It's unusual for people to convert their benefits into a monetary figure when discussing their compensation, so to be fair, either everyone needs to do it, or no one. The complaint with some of these advertisements is that they include benefits and per diem when that is not the standard, and that it's therefore misleading.
03-11-2017, 08:37 AM
#190
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2016
Posts: 443
That's what per diem pays for. It covers the difference since you are not able to go to a grocery store and cook meals in a kitchen.
So no, you are wrong. Per diem is not income. It is a reimbursement for higher cost of meals while on trips.
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