SKW CEO warns pilot shortage could lead...
03-10-2017, 11:57 AM
#172
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2017
Posts: 570
This isn't the whole story though. When considering that sub $100,000/year salary, you also have to consider the $2 million and 2 years+ worth of paid flight training that you're getting as part of it as well. Average that out over the remaining years of your 8-10 year commitment. And they take you from zero flight time. Plus they pay for college. There is no financial risk at all. Plus it's a guaranteed job (as long as you don't do something really dumb and screw it up), your pay won't go down, and if you deploy, your entire salary is tax-free.
With the airlines, you have to pay for that yourself. They give you 2 months worth of training (in IOE you're still providing a service to them) and you have to acquire the first 1500 hours in some manner on your own. And to have any real chance with a major, you also have to get that 4 year degree on your own dime.
Additionally, in the service, that pay keeps going up. Right now in the regionals, pay is, I think, fair in some places at $60k for the first year. The problem is that it goes into the toilet after that. Plus, it will not stay there if they take away the 1500 rule. As soon as pilots are easy to get again, pay drops like a hot rock.
With the airlines, you have to pay for that yourself. They give you 2 months worth of training (in IOE you're still providing a service to them) and you have to acquire the first 1500 hours in some manner on your own. And to have any real chance with a major, you also have to get that 4 year degree on your own dime.
Additionally, in the service, that pay keeps going up. Right now in the regionals, pay is, I think, fair in some places at $60k for the first year. The problem is that it goes into the toilet after that. Plus, it will not stay there if they take away the 1500 rule. As soon as pilots are easy to get again, pay drops like a hot rock.
Another thing to consider is total time. I can't speak for any fixed wing guys but I graduated from Rucker with 146 hours of RW time. Where else can you get hired to fly... anything with only 146 hours?
03-10-2017, 12:52 PM
#173
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2016
Posts: 180
Military training versus civilian training are completely different. I've been a civilian student, a military student, and instructed in both the military and civilian. Just the way the process is set up, the military version provides much more skill and ability per flight hour, even though it's a lot more expensive per flight hour. It's a little more than 146 for the Navy, but still less than 250...although honestly it's kind of irrelevant. They're hiring you with 0 time, not 146. They're paying you to get the 146.
03-10-2017, 02:23 PM
#174
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2016
Posts: 302
03-10-2017, 07:27 PM
#176
Line Holder
Joined APC: Mar 2017
Position: Guess
Posts: 34
Fact and Fallacy of the ?Pilot Shortage?
From the sound of this article and the input from the commenters, I'd say the pilot shortage is a myth.
From the sound of this article and the input from the commenters, I'd say the pilot shortage is a myth.
03-10-2017, 07:41 PM
#177
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2013
Posts: 539
FO here. I make 60k+, without much effort (i.e. I don't pick up very much open time, if any). I'm not underpaid. If I'm a Captain making 80k, I also will not be underpaid. The market seems to agree.
The mechanic fixing our engines is responsible for the lives on the plane. A lot of them don't make 100k... A nurse is responsible for many lives each shift. And let's be real, many new-ish nurses are in the 50k-60k range -- I earn more than my nurse friends/spouse.
A bus driver crashes, kills 35 kids. Makes maybe 20k. Lot of lives in his hands there... (yes, little technical skill/knowledge required thus the 20k salary, but the "lives in the hands" argument pertains)
Airline pilots DO require technical knowledge, I agree. But said knowledge can be obtained in a year; no college required. That's a fact. Sure, nowadays we need to flight instruct, etc. for an extra year or two, but the base knowledge acquisition can take place in a 180 day + 90 day program at ATP flight school.
I wish I made more, believe me. And I will fight for any compensation and QOL improvements for the WHOLE group when the chances come up in a union vote. But I also am aware that I make more than the average US resident by a large amount. I have no odd illusions about demanding minimum 100k compensation my first year as a Captain of a regional jet. Besides, with a bit of OT pick up I might get pretty close anyway...
The mechanic fixing our engines is responsible for the lives on the plane. A lot of them don't make 100k... A nurse is responsible for many lives each shift. And let's be real, many new-ish nurses are in the 50k-60k range -- I earn more than my nurse friends/spouse.
A bus driver crashes, kills 35 kids. Makes maybe 20k. Lot of lives in his hands there... (yes, little technical skill/knowledge required thus the 20k salary, but the "lives in the hands" argument pertains)
Airline pilots DO require technical knowledge, I agree. But said knowledge can be obtained in a year; no college required. That's a fact. Sure, nowadays we need to flight instruct, etc. for an extra year or two, but the base knowledge acquisition can take place in a 180 day + 90 day program at ATP flight school.
I wish I made more, believe me. And I will fight for any compensation and QOL improvements for the WHOLE group when the chances come up in a union vote. But I also am aware that I make more than the average US resident by a large amount. I have no odd illusions about demanding minimum 100k compensation my first year as a Captain of a regional jet. Besides, with a bit of OT pick up I might get pretty close anyway...
Second, though I have the required certificates in my possesion, my experience is worth more money. At over 4000 hours and over 1000 TPIC, I would say that at this point the company should be paying for my experience. You know experiance that is going to keep pax and equipment safe. Decision making and all. Interesting that attorneys get paid alot more for experience. So why is it that those of us in the industry that have "seen some stuff" is not very well compensated.
Lastly, even though many are making money hand over fist, consider that those that have been doing hard work (remember the days before 117, i do), have not been appropriatly compensated in the past. Hell I could pay off my loans today if I suddenly was backpaid what new FOs are making today. Consider this.
03-10-2017, 11:49 PM
#178
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2016
Posts: 2,559
It's money in the bank. Whether you choose to bring your own food from home and save it, or spend it daily on food while on the road is a personal choice. It's income, period. It pays bills and buys kewl stuffs.
03-11-2017, 03:13 AM
#179
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2015
Posts: 857
Then it pays for the food you bring from home. Where the food comes from is irrelevant. Per-diem is not considered compensation for the actual work that you do. Your argument is invalid.
03-11-2017, 04:32 AM
#180
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2011
Position: lav dumper
Posts: 707
Sorry for the reposts, but this is too important to get buried in pages of chatter.
We have to beat them at their own game. Crying on the forum only goes so far. Time to take action. Main feedback email: [email protected] and the general email is [email protected]
We have to beat them at their own game. Crying on the forum only goes so far. Time to take action. Main feedback email: [email protected] and the general email is [email protected]
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
