Go Back  Airline Pilot Central Forums > Airline Pilot Forums > Regional
Whatever Happened To That Pilot Shortage? >

Whatever Happened To That Pilot Shortage?

Search

Notices
Regional Regional Airlines

Whatever Happened To That Pilot Shortage?

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old 02-27-2017, 02:51 PM
  #41  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined APC: Feb 2016
Posts: 2,559
Default

Does your source specify FW ATP only, or all ATPs?

Originally Posted by CBreezy
I'm pretty sure, at least one of the last things I read, was that active meant a valid 1st or 2nd class medical.
HighFlight is offline  
Old 02-27-2017, 04:22 PM
  #42  
Gets Weekends Off
 
galaxy flyer's Avatar
 
Joined APC: May 2010
Position: Baja Vermont
Posts: 5,197
Default

Active means they have a license, PP or above, AND a medical of any class.

GF
galaxy flyer is offline  
Old 02-27-2017, 05:01 PM
  #43  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined APC: Jul 2013
Posts: 10,533
Default

Originally Posted by HighFlight
Does your source specify FW ATP only, or all ATPs?
Those were ATP airplane only. It was broken down. See the link posted earlier for details.
CBreezy is offline  
Old 02-27-2017, 05:45 PM
  #44  
On Reserve
 
Joined APC: Oct 2016
Posts: 24
Default

Originally Posted by iahflyr
To me, the pilot shortage happens when several airplanes at several companies cannot fly because there are no pilots to fly them.

Yes, first year pay has increased (through not years 2-12) and yes, signing and retention bonuses have appeared, but these have both served to increase the supply of pilots, preventing us from having a true shortage.

When will we see regional airplanes parked because there are simply no pilots to fly them?
This is exactly what's happening right now at Horizon. A shortage of any good is indicated my an increase in the cost of that good or service. So 1st year wages going from $26,000/year to $60,000/year is a diffinitive indicator of a shortage.
bblake is offline  
Old 08-21-2017, 07:48 PM
  #45  
Line Holder
 
Joined APC: May 2017
Posts: 50
Default

Originally Posted by bblake
This is exactly what's happening right now at Horizon. A shortage of any good is indicated my an increase in the cost of that good or service. So 1st year wages going from $26,000/year to $60,000/year is a diffinitive indicator of a shortage.
Wrong.

Increased demand vs. supply drives cost higher however that does not imply a shortage in and of itself.

All this industry is experiencing is a prolonged increase in demand.

There is no lack of supply, no shortage and no scarcity. Wages are rising at the regional level to match the demand-supply curve. Majors are not having to respond with more money. ATP and student pilot issuances are up.

Once again pilots bought the shortage Kool-Aid the industry loves to dish out to keep wages suppressed. Gives them a shot at lower hiring standards with the government through a fake crisis. Flight schools also love it for the love of $$$. The media loves it cause the impending pilot shortage sensationalist headlines make them $$$.

Pilots can't decide if there is a shortage of them or if they are about to be wiped out by drones. When pilots experience a demand for their services which approximates normal demand in a typical profession it's as though they catch the vapors or something.

A nurse takes a new job, gets a signing bonus and a paid move...that's normal. Nobody blinks. A pilot gets a doggie biscuit thrown their way and the end of the world must be near. We as a group are our own worst enemies more often than not. We ineptly propagate BS by not analyzing deep enough, BS which not infrequentely is being used consciously by some to remove money from our pockets. Believe it.

I'm encouraged that ALPA and some pilots mostly headed this one off at the pass (this time) by nipping it in the bud. That's why regional wages are going up instead of FAA requirements going down.

But attention shortage Kool-Aid drinkers....it's still not too late to help the industry use congress to screw up the demand-supply curve you are for once enjoying!

Just keep saying that the pilot shortage is real. They appreciate your soundbites and WILL use it at every opportunity they can so as to fix this "problem" of having to pay you more.

I promise!
Get Real is offline  
Old 08-22-2017, 12:44 AM
  #46  
Gets Weekends Off
 
SonicFlyer's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Apr 2017
Posts: 3,790
Default

Originally Posted by Get Real
That's why regional wages are going up instead of FAA requirements going down.
Why did the unions let wages get so low to begin with? Isn't that their job to protect the workers?
SonicFlyer is offline  
Old 08-22-2017, 10:46 AM
  #47  
Prime Minister/Moderator
 
rickair7777's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: Engines Turn Or People Swim
Posts: 40,091
Default

Originally Posted by SonicFlyer
Why did the unions let wages get so low to begin with? Isn't that their job to protect the workers?
I wouldn't say it's their job in regional-land. It's certainly what they're selling...

Keep in mind that lower pay for small airplanes means more money available for big airplanes.
rickair7777 is offline  
Old 08-22-2017, 03:07 PM
  #48  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined APC: Oct 2016
Posts: 846
Default Whatever Happened To That Pilot Shortage?

Originally Posted by SonicFlyer
Why did the unions let wages get so low to begin with? Isn't that their job to protect the workers?


The truth is that there is no union that can alter the economic environment in which their members work in. A union can only take advantage of positive economic environment or shield their members in less than ideal economics. The competent ones increase total compensation in good economic times, as in now. Or soften the blow in recessions/bankruptcies. And the less competent ones settle for paltry raises in good times or rollover in weak economic circumstances and let their members take most of the brunt. Regional airlines generally live in less than an ideal economic environment, thus the relatively low wage.
Nevjets is offline  
Old 08-22-2017, 05:15 PM
  #49  
Ich bin Pilot von Beruf
 
Joined APC: Aug 2016
Position: CRJ Kapitän
Posts: 615
Default

Originally Posted by flydiamond
I believe the (good) regional airlines are smart and will continue to raise pay as necessary to fill seats with competent pilots. The large amount of movement with retirements and (fingers crossed) growth at the majors should help keep QOL decent across the board (reserve will be a 4-5 month affair not 1-2 years; all airlines will be hiring allowing candidates to not need to commute, etc). This increase in salary should serve to both recruit kids into the aviation schools out of high school and have private or prospective pilots in other careers think about making the leap to become an airline pilot. A lot easier to invest a large amount in education and training or leave one's day job when first year earnings potential is $60k with an expectation of earning $100k+ in 3-4 years... a very reasonable salary for the amount of responsibility a regional pilot has.

My hope is that new hire and retention bonuses will be rolled into hourly pay. There was much talk of this at Endeavor and Trans States however I haven't read much lately. Is this still an effort on behalf of the unions or companies? It seems some companies (e.g. Republic, Trans States) are making very insincere statements on earnings potential, rolling things like per diem, health/life insurance into the first year pay rates.
In other words, don't come to SkyWest.
Duesenflieger is offline  
Old 08-22-2017, 06:32 PM
  #50  
Gets Weekends Off
 
SonicFlyer's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Apr 2017
Posts: 3,790
Question

Originally Posted by Nevjets
The truth is that there is no union that can alter the economic environment in which their members work in.
So you're saying that the regionals can't pay more because of the economics of the aviation business?
SonicFlyer is offline  
Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
edavis
Hangar Talk
2
09-21-2011 07:17 PM
brian434
Flight Schools and Training
16
07-06-2010 04:36 PM
joel payne
Hangar Talk
0
04-21-2008 12:36 PM
dozer
Regional
13
04-07-2008 03:20 AM
Opus
Major
46
04-04-2008 09:47 PM

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



Your Privacy Choices