Skyvector

Poor PSA.

American Airlines CEO Doug Parker is doing Town Hall meetings around the various bases. His latest trip was to Charlotte where he answered questions from PSA and Piedmont pilots. The video of the entire meeting was posted to our (AA) internal website for our viewing pleasure. After a couple of views (and many laughs) I'll provide the highlights.

Turns out, there are leaks in the PSA canoe already...and anybody could have seen it coming.

To kick things off, a PSA Captain who is also a recruiter stood up. According to her, she is having a hard time "selling" PSA to potential recruits. First and foremost it's becuase PSA: "Doesn't have a flow as good as Envoy's".

Currently, a pilot entering PSA has a 20 year (TWENTY YEAR) wait before interviewing with AA. Remember PSA doesn't have a flow. She mentioned how current First Officers, IF THEY ARE LUCKY have a TEN year wait before interviewing with AA.

Then she brings up how this is affecting morale and begs Doug Parker for changes.

Doug Parker's answer: "I don't know". He then asks for help from Jim Thomas, who tells her point blank:

"There are only so many spots. There are our off the street hires and ENVOY FLOW THROUGHS so there are only so many we can take from PSA."

Doug then says, "but hey, thanks for what you are doing." LOL...he brushed her off really quick.

Contrast that with the State of the Airlkne meeting Doug Parker already did in Dallas 2 weeks ago in which he answered questions about Envoy. For those who missed it, I'll provide a summary of that as well.

Sam Pool, Envoy MEC Chairman stood up and asked:

"We voted confidence in you guys (AA) in December. I don't want to see our guys leave for JetBlue, Delta, United...what can we do to get our guys to stay?"

Robert Isom (COO of AA) stood up to answer first. He said:

"Really good news is coming Envoy's way. We made a HUGE investment in bringing new aircraft to Envoy. We have the largest and BEST RJs coming your way."

He then continued:

"We have to make sure we are optimally sized. When we get to that point we are going to see the best thing that can possibly happen for pilots...which is being able to move QUICKLY from the Right seat to the Left and then FLOW in to American Airlines."


He then reiterated how once that optimum size is reached pilots coming into Envoy will upgrade and flow to AA in a very quick time frame. That optimum number is around 1500 pilots. Given our flow to AA that means a 5 year time frame from being a new hire at Envoy to flowing to American Airlines.

In other words, PSA pilots are already seeing cracks in their system and longing for what Envoy has. PSA is reaching their target size and therefore settling into stagnation with their only "silver lining" being 4 interviews at AA per month.

Meanwhile, Envoy is reaching their optimum size over the next 18 months with new aircraft arriving during that time period. Envoy has a true NO INTERVIEW flow to American Airlines at a rate of 25 pilots per month MINIMUM. Once the optimum size is reached, a new hire pilot coming into Envoy will be looking at flowing to AA in 5 years with an upgrade to Captain in between.

All current pilots at Envoy and those who arrive before the next 18 months will be ahead of that wave and already at AA or at the least already a Captain.

Can't say I feel sorry for PSA.

air101

CLT Guy

How many "yes" voters do you think are at PSA right now?

You are wishing the worst on a group of pilots that, at most, 100 out of 1200 voted yes. More people than that voted yes at envoy the first two times. PSA voted no just as many times as Envoy, and everyone knows it. 2/3 of the current employees were not even employees then, and you are somehow blaming them? That is ridiculous. That is like not buying a BMW/Honda or refusing to fly an Airbus because of WWII.

Wishing the worst on any pilot group shows your true character. You are the type of person that makes this industry the crap-show that it is. If we would just get rid of people like you, this could be a good, honorable profession.

(If you really want to know why it was said, you might want to look at current events. PSA pilots are in the middle of the negotiations with AAG about flow right now. Management also wants the pilots to approve street captains, and the pilots want some other rules changed. It is a big negotiation right now, and there is no way that either side is going to tip their cards. AAG needs to keep the classes full at PSA, and they know that the flow is what is going to do it. They will not shoot themselves in the foot right now, but don't want to give up everything during the negotiations. It is all politics.)

penaltybox

Oh good. Another "my regional is better than your regional" thread.

TallFlyer

Couple of facts the OP leaves out:

Yes, it's an interview. However, no one has been turned down except those who go and basically say point blank they don't want the job.

Also, we're in the process of renegoiating the numbers, per the LOA. Don't know what those will end up being, but I imagine the peanut gallery at APC will be among the first to know.

And CLT Guy hit the nail on the head.

awax

OMG, in 2015, is there a regional pilot on the planet who's going to buy into the SJS pitch? I thought that was a thing of the past, maybe not.

Skyvector

As you said, it's interviews and NOT a flow. Regardless, even at 100% pass rate that is still a TWENTY YEAR wait. Your own Captain/Recruiter said so...and she crunched the numbers herself.

Here is one nugget I left out:

PSA pilots CAN NOT be hired at AA "off the street". Are you even aware of that tidbit from your own contract? While you think about that think about this: Envoy pilots CAN interview and be hired at American Airlines outside of our flow...and many have been.

In the words of RJ Pilot:

Good Luck!

idlethrust

I have a friend who worked in the training dept over there until recently.
He basically said the same thing.
The Schedules over there are horrific, on the line and twice as worse in the training dept.Most of the people are tired of the 6 day a week schedule and with the commute time he was only averaging one day off a week.Besides that he said they are scrapping the bottom of the barrel with the new hires, alot of restricted Atp guys who require ALOT of extra work and training and its just exhausting he said.
Also I tried commuting a couple of weeks ago on a Psa flight out of clt.The flight was 3hrs late because they didn't have any crews to operate it.They also cancelled another flight across the concourse due to lack of crews.I think they may have bitten off more than they can chew with all of these aircraft .I think it they will be hard pressed to keep them staffed , with all the attrition I hear is happening there. 47 more crj 700 s and 24 more 900s is going to be tough to keep staffed in today's environment. Maybe a sign on bonus would help ? I don't know .That dangling carrot for the quick upgrade is fading fast.
It is kind of weird that the other two AA wholly owned regionals have a flow through but psa only has an interview. That's interesting.
I'm grabbing my popcorn.

N927EV

Ha. I've been hearing "GOOD NEWS IS COMING TO EAGLE (envoy)" since pre BK. What a joke.

Da40Pilot

Guys....the pilot shortage that is currently being experienced at an ALARMING rate with all regional airlines is just the preface to what is going to become a storm of epic proportions. Do NOT worry about who has a flow and who doesn't - everyone who gets into the game today will have a guaranteed job at a major 5 years from now very similarly to how easy it is to get a job with ANY regional today.

The pool of qualified and able regional airline captains WILL EVENTUALLY DRY UP, and so will off the street hires. The airline industry is safe for another few years before the actual pilots that will have to come to the rescue are those who are just turning 1500 hours.....and those are not being produced very quickly either.

Everyone is so worried about a flow and not being part of it. Remember just a few years ago, schools like ATP, and interview prep companies like Kit Darby and Emerald Coast were making BANK by flaunting their "regional airline" agreements and connections. Remember when ATP was (and I think still is) charging a ridiculous $1500 to provide you interview prep with REPUBLIC??????? ROTFLMAO.

Fast forward 2-3 years....and now we are getting to pretty much pick the regional we want to fly for and the regionals themselves are doing everything in their power to treat the new wave with utmost respect because they know how easy it will be to lose them to anyone else in today's market.

Looking at the outlook, the growth of the legacies, their airplane orders, the retirements, etc......the current 9000 regional airline captains will most likely only take care of legacy retirement issues over the next 5 years....without even taking into effect the fact that all 3 legacies have 500+ aircraft orders coming in - just in the next few years.

3-5 years from now, majors will be opening their doors to ANYONE with the qualifications required, no matter where they come from - in the same way that regionals are doing it now. It's a no brainer.