PSA and Endeavor
10-03-2014, 01:13 PM
#21
On Reserve
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Apr 2014
Position: Future Flyer
Posts: 21
Ding ding ding ding! Exactly right. Although "success or failure" must be qualified as to for whom. I think it's probably working out exactly how Delta intended it to.
But to your original post, troll or not. As you'll soon find out, 2 years is an eternity in this industry. By than the regional landscape will certainly look vastly different. Some may consolidate, some may vanish, some may be scooped up/stapled/B-scaled with their mainline partners. I think most of the 60 seat or less fleets will be gone or dwindling. Long story short, spending time on the drama boards this far out trying to divine the future of this or that carrier is a colossal waste of your time. Go watch Mythbusters and drink a beer. You'll have 40 years of airline pilot complaining. Why subject yourself to two more! Just keep your nose clean (no arrests or DUIs) and knock out those hours! Get your Commercial Multi ASAP and apply at Cape Air, Era, Airnet, Iron Air, or any host of places that are hiring guys below ATP mins. And if you're just now starting your private, no way in he77 will you be applying to regionals in two years. 750 hrs/year is more than many of us fly! Unless you have a trust fund, a Seminole, and live in Arizona, it's not likely. That said, best of luck to you and don't let the doomsdayers get you down! (Seriously though, get off the APC crack pipe for now).
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But to your original post, troll or not. As you'll soon find out, 2 years is an eternity in this industry. By than the regional landscape will certainly look vastly different. Some may consolidate, some may vanish, some may be scooped up/stapled/B-scaled with their mainline partners. I think most of the 60 seat or less fleets will be gone or dwindling. Long story short, spending time on the drama boards this far out trying to divine the future of this or that carrier is a colossal waste of your time. Go watch Mythbusters and drink a beer. You'll have 40 years of airline pilot complaining. Why subject yourself to two more! Just keep your nose clean (no arrests or DUIs) and knock out those hours! Get your Commercial Multi ASAP and apply at Cape Air, Era, Airnet, Iron Air, or any host of places that are hiring guys below ATP mins. And if you're just now starting your private, no way in he77 will you be applying to regionals in two years. 750 hrs/year is more than many of us fly! Unless you have a trust fund, a Seminole, and live in Arizona, it's not likely. That said, best of luck to you and don't let the doomsdayers get you down! (Seriously though, get off the APC crack pipe for now).
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10-03-2014, 01:28 PM
#22
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2005
Posts: 8,939
Delta doesn't seem to me like a company with no plan. The EtD program was implemented by Delta for filling Endeavor FO seats. The success or failure relies on metrics that Delta will set and then measure. The pilots who post here are not privy to these metrics and are not privy to Delta's plan. Every pilot out there thinks they are an expert when it comes to the airline business. I can assure you this isn't the case. Delta has a long term plan for Endeavor and the EtD program and as such, we must wait much longer to determine its success or failure.
Delta needs the type of people hired through the EtD. These candidates fit the Delta standard for a pilot. Why would Delta discard a resource they have already paid for. Most managers don't make a habit of paying for something they don't intend to use unless by doing so they gain in some other way. Despite what some Endeavor pilots think Delta is not making moves to try and aggravate the pilots at Endeavor.
Last edited by ShyGuy; 10-03-2014 at 01:44 PM.
10-03-2014, 02:20 PM
#24
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2012
Posts: 294
[QUOTE=Mesabah;1739539]The EtD guys will be stapled to the bottom of the Delta list if 9E folds. The EtD is an individual contract, it has to be honored, not only could you sue for lost wages, you could get punitive damages saying Delta defrauded you.[/QUOTE
NOT TRUE! Nowhere in the contract are there contingencies for EtD pilots for a shutdown or a sell off. Just like the flow agreement Mesaba had with NWA. And we all saw how that played out. The EtD has specific guidelines for eventually going to Delta. If these guidelines are not met because of any reason then too bad. And as for those of you that think that Endeavor is necessary for Delta to own/operate, you are sadly mistaken. If they can't staff the 900's next summer Delta will simply contract them out to carriers that can. It's that simple. And don't give me that line about a lack of pilots. I can name 5 regional airlines right now that have absolutely no problem finding pilots.
NOT TRUE! Nowhere in the contract are there contingencies for EtD pilots for a shutdown or a sell off. Just like the flow agreement Mesaba had with NWA. And we all saw how that played out. The EtD has specific guidelines for eventually going to Delta. If these guidelines are not met because of any reason then too bad. And as for those of you that think that Endeavor is necessary for Delta to own/operate, you are sadly mistaken. If they can't staff the 900's next summer Delta will simply contract them out to carriers that can. It's that simple. And don't give me that line about a lack of pilots. I can name 5 regional airlines right now that have absolutely no problem finding pilots.
10-03-2014, 02:38 PM
#25
Da Hudge
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: Poodle Whisperer
Posts: 17,473
The EtD requires captain upgrade otherwise they don't have to honor it.
10-03-2014, 02:58 PM
#26
:-)
Joined APC: Feb 2007
Posts: 7,339
Delta has to find some way out of the Bridge Agreement, wait till next year, when Delta HAS TO take anyone at Endeavor who applies to Delta. I think they thought it looked good on paper, but in practice, these agreements are a disaster for them.
Last edited by Mesabah; 10-03-2014 at 03:13 PM.
10-03-2014, 03:47 PM
#27
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2005
Posts: 8,939
Put it this way Mesabah, do they give a Delta Air Lines pilot seniority number to the EtDs upon passing their Endeavor interview? That would be a fool-proof way to ensure a Delta seat. But no, you don't get a number. This is just to get Endeavor right seats filled with new pilots. And let's not forget the hundreds of pilots who were hired right before 9/11 and the '08 recession and then never got their job when the airline started hiring again. This was true even though they passed the interview and were in the pool waiting for their class.
10-03-2014, 03:54 PM
#28
:-)
Joined APC: Feb 2007
Posts: 7,339
Put it this way Mesabah, do they give a Delta Air Lines pilot seniority number to the EtDs upon passing their Endeavor interview? That would be a fool-proof way to ensure a Delta seat. But no, you don't get a number. This is just to get Endeavor right seats filled with new pilots. And let's not forget the hundreds of pilots who were hired right before 9/11 and the '08 recession and then never got their job when the airline started hiring again. This was true even though they passed the interview and were in the pool waiting for their class.
The difference between someone with a CJO that didn't get the call back, and an EtD candidate is the agreement between the candidate, and Delta. EtD's have in writing that they don't have to re-interview, whereas the others did not.
10-03-2014, 04:23 PM
#29
:-)
Joined APC: Feb 2007
Posts: 7,339
There is an interesting situation brewing at Endeavor, the Bridge Agreement requires Delta to hire a specific amount of pilots from 9E regardless of their status in the SSP. That hiring commitment doesn't end though, until the last SSP eligible pilot is offered an SSP interview. For a pilot to be SSP eligible, they have to be a captain. However, even today, 14-07 came out with additional downgrades. Thus, the hiring commitment will never end as long as we are shrinking, or don't grow in size large enough for everyone to upgrade. Thus, when Delta runs out of candidates, they have to hire anyone here who applies, until the last FO on our SSP list upgrades, which is looking like never.
I think Delta thought that they would have an endless string of apps coming in here, because we have the Delta name associated with us. I think, they thought they would go through our seniority list within a few years. However, because of the number of lifers here, and the attrition rate, they are stuck hiring everyone who wants to go.
The only way out of the agreement is to shutdown 9E in the next two years, and interview everyone right then and there. Anyone who doesn't pass the interview is immediately unemployed, and offered severance. The EtD's then get stapled below those guys.
I think Delta thought that they would have an endless string of apps coming in here, because we have the Delta name associated with us. I think, they thought they would go through our seniority list within a few years. However, because of the number of lifers here, and the attrition rate, they are stuck hiring everyone who wants to go.
The only way out of the agreement is to shutdown 9E in the next two years, and interview everyone right then and there. Anyone who doesn't pass the interview is immediately unemployed, and offered severance. The EtD's then get stapled below those guys.
10-03-2014, 04:41 PM
#30
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2013
Posts: 2,319
There is an interesting situation brewing at Endeavor, the Bridge Agreement requires Delta to hire a specific amount of pilots from 9E regardless of their status in the SSP. That hiring commitment doesn't end though, until the last SSP eligible pilot is offered an SSP interview. For a pilot to be SSP eligible, they have to be a captain. However, even today, 14-07 came out with additional downgrades. Thus, the hiring commitment will never end as long as we are shrinking, or don't grow in size large enough for everyone to upgrade. Thus, when Delta runs out of candidates, they have to hire anyone here who applies, until the last FO on our SSP list upgrades, which is looking like never.
I think Delta thought that they would have an endless string of apps coming in here, because we have the Delta name associated with us. I think, they thought they would go through our seniority list within a few years. However, because of the number of lifers here, and the attrition rate, they are stuck hiring everyone who wants to go.
The only way out of the agreement is to shutdown 9E in the next two years, and interview everyone right then and there. Anyone who doesn't pass the interview is immediately unemployed, and offered severance. The EtD's then get stapled below those guys.
I think Delta thought that they would have an endless string of apps coming in here, because we have the Delta name associated with us. I think, they thought they would go through our seniority list within a few years. However, because of the number of lifers here, and the attrition rate, they are stuck hiring everyone who wants to go.
The only way out of the agreement is to shutdown 9E in the next two years, and interview everyone right then and there. Anyone who doesn't pass the interview is immediately unemployed, and offered severance. The EtD's then get stapled below those guys.
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