TallFlyer

If one is honest, most of this “problem” is that when one takes a lot at the open time pot and sees crappy trips (lets define that as less than 4 credit hours per day for the sake of argument) plus their own schedule, it’s easy to come to the conclusion that all Jim S builds is crappy trips. But your sample size is too small.

The truth of the matter (and I’ve personally taken every trip from Flica and dropped it into Excel and confirmed this, although last time I did that it was a while ago) is that our average 4 day trip is between 20 and 21 credit hours. Not fantastic, and certainly a number that we would all like to see improved, but not the absolute dumpster fire that everyone seems to think it is.

The company position is that we simply don’t have enough mid day flying to make trips that have more efficiency. I can neither confirm nor deny this as of yet, but I can tell you I’ve spent plenty of time on days 2-4 in hotel rooms with a 1500 or later van time.

Again, this is something that ALPA (and myself specifically) wants to dig into and look at from every angle, and would be a requirement of a PBS LOA. I would love nothing more than a mix of trip lengths from 5-7 average credit hours per day, but we haven’t been given the keys to that particular system yet.

MichaelVne

Pairing Canceled
T2020 : 16JAN ONLY ON TUE BSE REPT: 0455L Operates: Jan 16 Only
Base/Equip: TYS/CRJ CA01
DY DD DH C FLTNO DPS-ARS DEPL ARRL BLKT GRNT OA EQP TBLK TDHD TCRD TDUTY/FDP LAYOVER
TU 16 5126 TYS-PHL 0540 0733 0153 0057 RJ2
TU 16 5584 PHL-BUF 0830 0958 0128 0038
TU 16 5584 BUF-PHL 1036 1203 0127 0448 0448 0723/0708 PHL 1907
D-END: 1218L (NR 900) REPT: 0725L RENAISSANCE PHIL AIRPORT 16105215900
WE 17 5312 PHL-DAY 0810 1001 0151 0044
WE 17 * 5261 DAY-PHL 1045 1221 0136 0043
WE 17 DH 5036 PHL-CAK 1304 1436 0046 RJ7 0327 0046 0413 0726/0456 CAK 1344
D-END: 1451L (NR 900) REPT: 0435L RAMADA HALL OF FAME CANTO 13304991011
TH 18 * 5355 CAK-CLT 0520 0702 0142 0248
TH 18 DH 5245 CLT-CAK 0950 1130 0050 RJ7 0142 0050 0330 0710/0227 CAK 1650
D-END: 1145L (NR 900) REPT: 0435L RAMADA HALL OF FAME CANTO 13304991011
FR 19 * 5355 CAK-CLT 0520 0702 0142 0233
FR 19 DH 5297 CLT-TYS 0935 1047 0036 RJ9 0142 0036 0218 0627/0227
D-END: 1102L T.A.F.B.: 7807 DHD: 0212
Total: 1139 0212 1449 2826/1658


Round 1 line and I would like to consider myself fairly senior.
Respectfully, Michael 39%

Folove

I agree with people sample size too small. However, even with a 4 day with a min credit of 4 hr per day is still relatively very low.

I believe our pilots would not sap as much and keep their current schedule if trips were higher credit. I know I would. I would sacrifice and commute on both sides if I need to in order to get a trip that’s 24 hours or more. The a/c doesn’t matter. A trip is a trip 😉

irrelevant

Min day: 4.5, no excuses
Duty rig: 2:1
Trip rig: 3.8:1
DH to 75%-100%

Watch the trips magically improve, or stop caring because you're getting paid on the rig.

FlyingSlowly

If we vote for PBS without trip rigs, duty rigs, and increased min day with less restriction on it, we are allowing ourselves to be screwed.

WhiteMorpheus

4:1 trip rig would pay 19.5
3.75:1 rig is 20.8
3.5:1 rig is 22.2

The pay part of the problem is easily solved. Rigs seem much better for us than an adjustment of min day. Efficient, definitely not, but paying me (1st year FO) $10 per hour for every hour away from base makes every day worth $240, or a 6hr min day basically (at 4:1 trip rig). That and I don't have any problem with high TAFB, if the pay's good.

joseolay

Trips rigs add more value than duty rigs. A duty rig would be a great improvement and both a duty and trip rig is ideal, but a trip rig is way more valuable than a duty rig.

A duty rig wouldn't increase the credit in most of our round 1 pairings, but it would add pay when days are delayed and your duty time goes on longer with delays, especially when you're asked to accept an extension.

A trip rig on the other hand would increase credit on a lot more our current originally built pairings. Most of the trips below 20 would pay a bit more with a trip rig. Trip rigs might even be more valuable than a better min day depending on what's offered.

Just take 3.5 or 4.0 and divide by the time away from base on your pairings and see if that number is higher than the credit on your trip. If it is, a rig would net you more money.

Trip rigs also will not have a negative impact on the computability of trips. If anything, a trip rig would make trips more commutable. Eliminating the carveouts on the min day and/or increasing the min day number would add value no doubt but it could make trips less commutable because the soft pay work rules can be plugged into pairing builder software with the the goal of generating trips that pay out less soft pay above block. It would be nice to get extra pay on the 4-days, but it might be a wash for commuters if more trips are less commutable.