Jecain7

I just got a round 2 in DCA. 9 months and probably would take a few more to get round 1.

WhiteMorpheus

Please do. I'm really curious how 4 hotel rooms and per diem is cheaper or more efficient than splitting a trip when it gets back to an outstation base.

irrelevant

I understand this is a lower priority because so many commute, but those who choose to live in domicile never spend a dollar of the commuter hotel money, or call out using the commuter policy. Meanwhile they are slogging through commuter-grade trips because the company won't build a variety of trips.

The company may not "hate" pilots who live in domicile, but their policies certainly seem to "prefer" pilots who do not.

It's a huge quality of life issue for pilots who live in domicile, that would take very little effort on the company's part to correct. PSA used to have a number of 1,2, and 3-day trips...even as recently as a year ago.

Skyykingg

A couple people have commented on this. For a outsider looking in I’m a bit confused. Could someone shed some light on what exactly is happening? I plan on coming here and living in base. What is the problem with the lines?

irrelevant

Quite simply, lines consisting of only 4-day trips will require a pilot to be away from home between around 320 and 400 hours a month. If some lines were built with 1-3 day trips, the total amount of time a pilot would have to be away from home in a month would drop, and could be below 200 hours a month (if the line consisted completely of one and two day trips).

If you're single, no kids, and have no life where you live, then 4-day trips are fine. If you have to get on an airplane to commute to work because you don't live in your home base, 4-day trips are great, because they reduce the hassle of commuting.

If you have a family, a home, a business that allows you to work for what PSA pays, or other reasons to be at home, 4-day trips are sub-optimal. You'd likely prefer to come to work in the morning, and go home in the late afternoon, spending your night in your home with your family, like normal people.

Some people focus on how many days off they get, but I don't think that's the ideal metric. The ideal metric, in my opinion, is time away from base, and that amount should be the minimum possible.

From this viewpoint, four 1-day trips are far preferable to one 4-day trip. A 4-day trip will run around 84 hours away from base, for about 20 hours of pay. Four 1-day trips could run 40 hours or less away from base, for that same 20 hours of pay.

Even two 2-day trips will run about 70 hours away from base, with 20 hours of pay...and they'll allow someone who lives in domicile a night at home with their family.

We used to have a variety of these trips at PSA. For a while now, we haven't, because the company quit building them. You can occasionally pick up or trade into a trip that is shorter than four days in length, but that's because the original 4-day trip the company built got broken up for training, vacation, etc.

These shorter trips will disappear completely if the company gets their wish with PBS, and they continue to only build 4-day trips to begin with.

So, if you live where you are based, would you rather be at work 200 hours a month, or 400? You'll get paid the same, regardless.

TallFlyer

That's a whole lot of what ifs and maybes, especially considering that the majority of the pilot group commutes. If you're a commuter lots of shorter trips could be less than ideal, especially if either end is non commutable.

And in case you haven't been paying attention, building trips is a separate function than PBS. PBS is just a different way of building a line vs line bidding, then having to SAP the crap out of it. PBS does not build trips.

irrelevant

I am aware of how PBS works. We've both used it elsewhere. Garbage in, garbage out.

Because they only build 4-day trips, and PBS works to eliminate conflicts in the line it builds, there won't be the broken-up, formerly 4-day trips from which to trade into.

And there is no "if" when it comes to the math of spending time in hotel rooms, vs. spending time at home.

Skyykingg

Got it. Thanks for the breakdown.

TallFlyer

[QUOTE=irrelevant;2561819]I am aware of how PBS works. We've both used it elsewhere. Garbage in, garbage out.

Because they only build 4-day trips, and PBS works to eliminate conflicts in the line it builds, there won't be the broken-up, formerly 4-day trips from which to trade into.[/ALPA]
Which is why a necessary component of PBS will be ALPA involvement in building trips, and a equitable way of picking who's solution to use.

BTW, those "formerly 4-day trips" are a large reason why reservists get used and abused, because post SAP all that's left are little crappy pieces.

Agreed. But you also signed up to be an airline pilot.

irrelevant

I agree some of the broken trips that are non-productive will be eliminated with PBS.

As for being away from home being part of being an airline pilot, I did just fine as an airline pilot when I flew 1-day trips, credited 85 hours or so per month, and was away from home less than 200 hours a month. Just because PSA's schedule-building favors being away from home 400 hours a month, doesn't mean that's the way it is everywhere, or the way it always is.

Should we expect our representatives to trade away the limit on trip length from 4 days, to 6 now, just because we're airline pilots?