FlyingSlowly

Irrelevant. They'll be upgraded soon. Whether they want to or not.

texinc

So have they expired already? I thought we had a few more months. It is getting more difficult to ignore those Piedmont/Envoy street captain bonuses.

njd1

Doesn't PSA have some equivalent CA retention program or is this a case where they force upgrade you, give you whatever year CA pay you have coming (say, year 2 or 3) and tell you to frig off otherwise?

irrelevant

Your second scenario...except they also pull you out of your chosen domicile and “voluntarily” move you to a domicile not of your choosing.

flyhere421

How long is the flow realistically for a new hire today?

WhiteMorpheus

7-8 years, by my calculations:
1700 pilots on the seniority list
200 no-flows
10 flows per month
50% additional outside attrition (not counting training attrition)

At 180 attritions per year that is 8.33 years to get through all 1500 senior pilots. With outside attrition increased to 100% of flow the timeline comes down to 6.25 years. The most senior pilots are less likely to leave for other carriers, so once you are within 1 year of flow you can expect the movement rate to slow to 10/month which would put you pretty close to 7 years, even at the 100% attrition rate.

It's a fantastic benefit to have and hopefully we'll be seeing an additional increase soon. Better yet, Mainline would just put us on their seniority list along with a pay bump and a reasonable aircraft/seat lock.

Edit/Caveat: Mainline would need 100% of their WO pilots to cover the mandatory retirements they have over the next 6 years if they stopped OTS hiring.

njd1

I saw that "voluntary" reference earlier and thought I was going crazy. Would love to see the contract language that permits this. I've written (and signed) my share of contracts in my life and I would never have let that through. Nothing on this earth is voluntary if there is a gun to your head.

Well, here's to hoping forced upgrades are a temporary thing for all concerned.

penaltybox

The number of lifers is fewer than 100 not 200.

ACEssXfer

There's around 80 on the top of the list right now but there are plenty of pilots junior to that group mixed through the list that will not flow. We hired a lot of older comair guys that have pretty cushy in base sim jobs or ground IP jobs etc etc that will not leave. I'd bet the total number is probably close to 200.

irrelevant

Someone who is number 400-600 on the list should expect about 100 to bypass. Someone who is currently number 1,700 may be able to use 200 bypasses as a ballpark estimation. PSA has hired, and will probably still hire pilots who are old enough that once the flow gets to their level, it won’t make sense to go.

Projecting anything out more than a couple years in the regional sector is pretty useless though, as things can change for the better or worse pretty rapidly....particularly with a wholly-owned operator that has zero control over its destiny.

I hope the flow works out for those at the bottom, but seven years is a very long time for everything to “go according to plan”.