dwightkschrute

Management can hire better lawyers than ALPA can. Management is finding ways to cut costs and the lawyers come back with how to change the contract around to do so and since they're better than our union's lawyers, we also get shafted on any new contracts or LOAs.

The only positive things I can say about this place in the decade I've been here are, the people I work with (not anyone in a management position) are, for the most part, fantastic. It's given me opportunities to travel domestically and internationally as well as provide a steady income (albeit very low for a long time). The SAP is nice because it allows schedule flexibility. Other than that, management sucks, our union has no backbone and can't seem to follow through on anything and our airplanes are falling apart because of management sucking. It's a very hostile place to work while you're here, but when you're not on the clock, it can be very nice (especially since you don't have to take work home with you like many other jobs). I will be happy to eventually leave this place and while I will miss the people I work with, the rest of the company can burn in hell.

Belizepilot

Why would anyone give up anything for something new to come?

AA controls everything we do, and everything we get comes from them directly. What they give to us they will give to Envoy and Piedmont without a doubt. All the gains we have received in the last 1.5 years have come without us giving anything up. What you guys are talking about is what will I give up so that the company can look better to AA?. Every month AA see's the data on our pilot group and the hours flown. We are no where near as productive on a per pilot basis as Envoy or Piedmont. If you guys wanna give up QOL for some Min day bs and other small soft pay gains, just know that the gains from AA is what will affect your paycheck the most, and that will come having to give up nothing!


Don't expect anything anytime soon. There is no "ProActive" approach in the airline industry, and there certainly hasn't been with this company.

joseolay

Strong PBS rumors lately backed up by the union email last year about the creation of a PBS research committee. How could PBS work without changing the SAP? How could the pilots benefit from PBS assuming every other part of the contract remains status quo, include work rules. And assuming nothings given up, just a swap of line bid for PBS and keeping the SAP exactly how it is now. This company is stingy, they ain't giving us anything extra for PBS so we better not give away anything outside of switching from line bidding to PBS and sure as heck not change the SAP.

BizJet

SAB doesn't exist with any current PBS software. Republic has it in their contract but the company has "yet" to find a company to write the software.

So if we get PBS, SAP will be most likely gone forever unless we somehow get the company to find someone to write the program.

PBS is coming as with every airline that's still line bidding. It's more economical for the airline and it requires less pilots since the lines are more efficient. The key is delaying it until we get everything we want.

nkweb

Is there seriously a potential for SAP to go away or not be as beneficial to the pilots QOL as it currently is? I have a job offer here and basing my decision primarily on SAP.

JayBee

As I understand it, from people that worked places that have/had it - the software doesn't build the pairings. The company still does that, so how does it become more efficient when its the same pairings ? (honest question)

JayBee

Since it is single handedly their best recruiting and retention tool they would be ignorant to do so.

Irishblackbird

SAP in its present state struggles to process swap requests in a timely manner, even withe the FO's and captains split. If PBS is implemented with a SAP, I would have zero confidence that it would run properly to our benefit, and would probably take months if not years to run correctly. How much money would they allocate to its development? If pbs with sap were implemented there better be strong language in the form of financial penalties that will favor the pilots if it doesn't work as sold.

My understanding is that PBS only benefits the very senior, whereas SAP benefits not only the very senior but the majority of the pilots on staff. I also wonder what PBS would do to encourage senior FOs to upgrade if there qol will be hindered by PBS.

I agree, SAP will be gone forever if we see PBS come our way.

joseolay

Guys

Let's think about this PBS logically. PBS needs a pilot vote, it won't pass if SAP goes away period. It is unlikely to pass if SAP is changed even a little bit. It would only pass if SAP stays the same exact way it does now period. Let's discuss what kind of PBS with SAP that could pass. SAP works with flica, so you'd have to keep flica for PBS to pass because the pilots don't want to risk voting in a different unknown software program to run SAP that could be worse than flica. PBS would have to run on different software but flica still used for everything else. Many other airlines do this, including one I formally worked for.

penaltybox

Any changes to SAP would require a pilot vote. I dont see it going away unless the company offers incredibly HUGE improvements.