Decided to come clean to the FAA.
02-09-2024, 08:15 AM
#51
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2011
Posts: 594
I fell on the opposite side of the spectrum being fearful of screwing up my civilian career opportunities - which at the time were only focused on RW operators. My retirement physical was spent more or less with my doc asking "are you sure this or that isn't bothering you?".
Once again, not saying any posters on here have done that - and good God the FAA med certainly needs an overhaul of some of it's antiquated views (behavioral health!) - but I feel like attempting to hide VA from FAA was perceived as acceptable, which, with all the red tape of the FAA, I can understand how that became a thing.
02-09-2024, 09:18 AM
#52
Prime Minister/Moderator
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: Engines Turn Or People Swim
Posts: 40,016
*** For anybody on AD, when mil docs, TAMP people, VA people, or VA facilitators tell you that "it won't be a problem for the airlines" you can be assured that THEY DO NOT KNOW WHAT THE $%^& THEY ARE TALKING ABOUT. Unless it's a flight surgeon who also has FAA 1C AME status (rare as hens teeth).
I fell on the opposite side of the spectrum being fearful of screwing up my civilian career opportunities - which at the time were only focused on RW operators. My retirement physical was spent more or less with my doc asking "are you sure this or that isn't bothering you?".
02-09-2024, 10:10 AM
#53
Line Holder
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Jan 2024
Posts: 42
That's been the case for decades, and certainly contributed to the current mess with VA/FAA inconsistencies.
*** For anybody on AD, when mil docs, TAMP people, VA people, or VA facilitators tell you that "it won't be a problem for the airlines" you can be assured that THEY DO NOT KNOW WHAT THE $%^& THEY ARE TALKING ABOUT. Unless it's a flight surgeon who also has FAA 1C AME status (rare as hens teeth).
Yeah, same. Glad I erred on the conservative side.
*** For anybody on AD, when mil docs, TAMP people, VA people, or VA facilitators tell you that "it won't be a problem for the airlines" you can be assured that THEY DO NOT KNOW WHAT THE $%^& THEY ARE TALKING ABOUT. Unless it's a flight surgeon who also has FAA 1C AME status (rare as hens teeth).
Yeah, same. Glad I erred on the conservative side.
02-09-2024, 10:41 AM
#54
Disinterested Third Party
Joined APC: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,260
When I began flying, I was a kid, young teen, CAP cadet. My first AME visit yielded a hostile, crochety curmudgeoon doctor who hated kids (for years passengers and clients asked to see my drivers license to see if I was old enough). He happened to be an eye, ear, nose and throat specialist, and he gave me a full eye exam, which included bright lights and the old-fashioned giant contact lens apparatus to test intraocular eye pressure. I couldn't stand anything near my eye, and certainly not in my eye, and nothing he did in there was standard or part of a FAA medical exam, but he threw it at me anyway. When I couldn't deal with things be put in my eye, he said he'd just refuse to issue the medical, because "what good is a pilot who can't have stuff in his eye?" He asked what I'd do if something got in my eye on short final, and when I said "go around," it infuriated him. He deferred me, not for the eye, but becuase I was asthmatic.
The FAA subsequently issued a medical (and student pilot certificate) after a little back and forth, without limitations. I never went back to that doctor again.
When I got hit with a kidney stone, a big one, occluding one kidney, it was one of the most painful things I'd ever experienced. It made me extremely sick, and required surgery that night. I was due to start captain OE the next day, on the 747. I notified the chief pilot, to cover the trip, and his response to me was "let me know when you get your medical back." That was silly, I thought; it's a kidney stone. People have them all the time. Many never say a word. Lo, and behold, three months (and change) later, I was able to go back to work (following two more surgeries). Turns out that after a kidney stone, the FAA likes reassurance that the stone was a one-time thing, that it won't occur again (or isn't likely to) attested by medical professionals in the know. X-rays and ultrasounds were preferred (and obtained). I know a number of pilots who have had kidney stones and never said a word, or passed the stone and kept flying, and may or may not have reported it at their next exam. They were subject to the same rules as I; they simply "got away with it." Mine was a bit harder to hide, given that I went to an emergency room the night the stone made itself known.
Given how common a kidney stone is, one might suggest that if it's been passed, no harm, no foul. The FAA's requirement for documentation that the stone will not reasonably be expected to reccur might seem draconian. However, from personal experience, the level of pain was incapacitating. A pilot who passes a stone and doesn't report it, doesn't seek the additional documentation and verification, and later passes another...may very well be incapacitated in flight. Mine came on with very little warning. I thought it was an apendicitis when it first manifest. The policies and procedures are there for a reason.
Some years ago I was involved in close support of 19 firefighters who were killed on a very active wildfire, working alongside; an unarguably traumatic event, and was acosted the next morning by enraged evacuees from the fire who claimed we weren't doing enough to help them (what more do you want, folks? We're dying on your behalf). I had three calls that day and the next asking if I needed critical incident stress debriefing or a CISD team member support. I kept working through the fire, including an early-morning overflight of the body bags on the mountain on may way into the fire the next morning. I think most of us up there would have preferred to take a breather and a moment of silence to reflect or collect, but we weren't even allowed to stand by the roadside and salute as the remains passed. we were too busy either intermittently standing by, or fighting fire. We were in a can-do environment and we all had that approach to our job. Refusal speed was taxi speed, because beyond that, we were going. And we did. At the same time, there's a legitimate argument for intervention, for some counseling, for some down time. We do live in an indusry (notice I didn't merely say "work in an industry") in which we sit on things at times that we ought not. Many of us hail from a word that still practices "rub some dirt on it and get back in the game," and we don't think twice about that.
Presently I am grounded; it was a self-grounding, while I notified the FAA, via AMAS, of a condition that the FAA would not have discovered without my disclosure. I could likely have "gotten away" with it for a time; perhaps indefinitely. It's temporary (the grounding), but life-altering, too. We all make our choices, and to me this was clear. I didn't make it alone, but have been in touch with my own AME, sought counseling and support with AMAS, considered based on my own industry expereince, and acted based on all available information, and in the way I felt was ethically and professionally necessary. I impose nothing on anyone else in so doing; we are responsible for ourselves. To those who would question the original poster's decision to come forward, I can only say he must do as he sees fit, and he does not need to answer to anyone here any more than I. We are responsible for our career, and the choices we make in it. I'm not revealing something that I'd hidden, but rather revealing something that I could hide, but chose not to. The original poster had a slightly different route, but to the same place; grounded, awaiting paperwork and word. His is legal and medical. Mine is merely medical.
Posters here occasionally bring up these sorts of things; sometimes medical, sometimes legal, in various forms, and my best advice, worth every penny one has paid (nothing), is to seek professional counseling; talk to the AME, talk to an attorney, talk to an advisory service (AOPA, AMAS, union, etc), and get informed, get help, and support and good counsel as to how to proceed. I also very strongly urge anyone who is considering trying to "get away" with a condition to set aside the professional impacts to career, and consider their own health, safety, and future. Don't simply live with a mental or emotional condition, or physical malady. These things can and do get worse without support and without help. Get the help you need: that comes first. While you're pursuing the help you need, do counsel with whatever resources are available, and make informed choices, and actions. But make them. We're all heavily invested in our careers, as are our families. A lot rides on our actions, and none of us take them lightly. Play it like chess; consider the ramifications of every move, several moves down the line. We're in a world of ripples; eventually those waves come back to us, possibly from directions we didn't suspect. Seek help, be open, destress. There are more than enough gotchas in this business without creating more.
The FAA subsequently issued a medical (and student pilot certificate) after a little back and forth, without limitations. I never went back to that doctor again.
When I got hit with a kidney stone, a big one, occluding one kidney, it was one of the most painful things I'd ever experienced. It made me extremely sick, and required surgery that night. I was due to start captain OE the next day, on the 747. I notified the chief pilot, to cover the trip, and his response to me was "let me know when you get your medical back." That was silly, I thought; it's a kidney stone. People have them all the time. Many never say a word. Lo, and behold, three months (and change) later, I was able to go back to work (following two more surgeries). Turns out that after a kidney stone, the FAA likes reassurance that the stone was a one-time thing, that it won't occur again (or isn't likely to) attested by medical professionals in the know. X-rays and ultrasounds were preferred (and obtained). I know a number of pilots who have had kidney stones and never said a word, or passed the stone and kept flying, and may or may not have reported it at their next exam. They were subject to the same rules as I; they simply "got away with it." Mine was a bit harder to hide, given that I went to an emergency room the night the stone made itself known.
Given how common a kidney stone is, one might suggest that if it's been passed, no harm, no foul. The FAA's requirement for documentation that the stone will not reasonably be expected to reccur might seem draconian. However, from personal experience, the level of pain was incapacitating. A pilot who passes a stone and doesn't report it, doesn't seek the additional documentation and verification, and later passes another...may very well be incapacitated in flight. Mine came on with very little warning. I thought it was an apendicitis when it first manifest. The policies and procedures are there for a reason.
Some years ago I was involved in close support of 19 firefighters who were killed on a very active wildfire, working alongside; an unarguably traumatic event, and was acosted the next morning by enraged evacuees from the fire who claimed we weren't doing enough to help them (what more do you want, folks? We're dying on your behalf). I had three calls that day and the next asking if I needed critical incident stress debriefing or a CISD team member support. I kept working through the fire, including an early-morning overflight of the body bags on the mountain on may way into the fire the next morning. I think most of us up there would have preferred to take a breather and a moment of silence to reflect or collect, but we weren't even allowed to stand by the roadside and salute as the remains passed. we were too busy either intermittently standing by, or fighting fire. We were in a can-do environment and we all had that approach to our job. Refusal speed was taxi speed, because beyond that, we were going. And we did. At the same time, there's a legitimate argument for intervention, for some counseling, for some down time. We do live in an indusry (notice I didn't merely say "work in an industry") in which we sit on things at times that we ought not. Many of us hail from a word that still practices "rub some dirt on it and get back in the game," and we don't think twice about that.
Presently I am grounded; it was a self-grounding, while I notified the FAA, via AMAS, of a condition that the FAA would not have discovered without my disclosure. I could likely have "gotten away" with it for a time; perhaps indefinitely. It's temporary (the grounding), but life-altering, too. We all make our choices, and to me this was clear. I didn't make it alone, but have been in touch with my own AME, sought counseling and support with AMAS, considered based on my own industry expereince, and acted based on all available information, and in the way I felt was ethically and professionally necessary. I impose nothing on anyone else in so doing; we are responsible for ourselves. To those who would question the original poster's decision to come forward, I can only say he must do as he sees fit, and he does not need to answer to anyone here any more than I. We are responsible for our career, and the choices we make in it. I'm not revealing something that I'd hidden, but rather revealing something that I could hide, but chose not to. The original poster had a slightly different route, but to the same place; grounded, awaiting paperwork and word. His is legal and medical. Mine is merely medical.
Posters here occasionally bring up these sorts of things; sometimes medical, sometimes legal, in various forms, and my best advice, worth every penny one has paid (nothing), is to seek professional counseling; talk to the AME, talk to an attorney, talk to an advisory service (AOPA, AMAS, union, etc), and get informed, get help, and support and good counsel as to how to proceed. I also very strongly urge anyone who is considering trying to "get away" with a condition to set aside the professional impacts to career, and consider their own health, safety, and future. Don't simply live with a mental or emotional condition, or physical malady. These things can and do get worse without support and without help. Get the help you need: that comes first. While you're pursuing the help you need, do counsel with whatever resources are available, and make informed choices, and actions. But make them. We're all heavily invested in our careers, as are our families. A lot rides on our actions, and none of us take them lightly. Play it like chess; consider the ramifications of every move, several moves down the line. We're in a world of ripples; eventually those waves come back to us, possibly from directions we didn't suspect. Seek help, be open, destress. There are more than enough gotchas in this business without creating more.
02-09-2024, 05:42 PM
#55
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2015
Posts: 351
When I began flying, I was a kid, young teen, CAP cadet. My first AME visit yielded a hostile, crochety curmudgeoon doctor who hated kids (for years passengers and clients asked to see my drivers license to see if I was old enough). He happened to be an eye, ear, nose and throat specialist, and he gave me a full eye exam, which included bright lights and the old-fashioned giant contact lens apparatus to test intraocular eye pressure. I couldn't stand anything near my eye, and certainly not in my eye, and nothing he did in there was standard or part of a FAA medical exam, but he threw it at me anyway. When I couldn't deal with things be put in my eye, he said he'd just refuse to issue the medical, because "what good is a pilot who can't have stuff in his eye?" He asked what I'd do if something got in my eye on short final, and when I said "go around," it infuriated him. He deferred me, not for the eye, but becuase I was asthmatic.
The FAA subsequently issued a medical (and student pilot certificate) after a little back and forth, without limitations. I never went back to that doctor again.
When I got hit with a kidney stone, a big one, occluding one kidney, it was one of the most painful things I'd ever experienced. It made me extremely sick, and required surgery that night. I was due to start captain OE the next day, on the 747. I notified the chief pilot, to cover the trip, and his response to me was "let me know when you get your medical back." That was silly, I thought; it's a kidney stone. People have them all the time. Many never say a word. Lo, and behold, three months (and change) later, I was able to go back to work (following two more surgeries). Turns out that after a kidney stone, the FAA likes reassurance that the stone was a one-time thing, that it won't occur again (or isn't likely to) attested by medical professionals in the know. X-rays and ultrasounds were preferred (and obtained). I know a number of pilots who have had kidney stones and never said a word, or passed the stone and kept flying, and may or may not have reported it at their next exam. They were subject to the same rules as I; they simply "got away with it." Mine was a bit harder to hide, given that I went to an emergency room the night the stone made itself known.
Given how common a kidney stone is, one might suggest that if it's been passed, no harm, no foul. The FAA's requirement for documentation that the stone will not reasonably be expected to reccur might seem draconian. However, from personal experience, the level of pain was incapacitating. A pilot who passes a stone and doesn't report it, doesn't seek the additional documentation and verification, and later passes another...may very well be incapacitated in flight. Mine came on with very little warning. I thought it was an apendicitis when it first manifest. The policies and procedures are there for a reason.
Some years ago I was involved in close support of 19 firefighters who were killed on a very active wildfire, working alongside; an unarguably traumatic event, and was acosted the next morning by enraged evacuees from the fire who claimed we weren't doing enough to help them (what more do you want, folks? We're dying on your behalf). I had three calls that day and the next asking if I needed critical incident stress debriefing or a CISD team member support. I kept working through the fire, including an early-morning overflight of the body bags on the mountain on may way into the fire the next morning. I think most of us up there would have preferred to take a breather and a moment of silence to reflect or collect, but we weren't even allowed to stand by the roadside and salute as the remains passed. we were too busy either intermittently standing by, or fighting fire. We were in a can-do environment and we all had that approach to our job. Refusal speed was taxi speed, because beyond that, we were going. And we did. At the same time, there's a legitimate argument for intervention, for some counseling, for some down time. We do live in an indusry (notice I didn't merely say "work in an industry") in which we sit on things at times that we ought not. Many of us hail from a word that still practices "rub some dirt on it and get back in the game," and we don't think twice about that.
Presently I am grounded; it was a self-grounding, while I notified the FAA, via AMAS, of a condition that the FAA would not have discovered without my disclosure. I could likely have "gotten away" with it for a time; perhaps indefinitely. It's temporary (the grounding), but life-altering, too. We all make our choices, and to me this was clear. I didn't make it alone, but have been in touch with my own AME, sought counseling and support with AMAS, considered based on my own industry expereince, and acted based on all available information, and in the way I felt was ethically and professionally necessary. I impose nothing on anyone else in so doing; we are responsible for ourselves. To those who would question the original poster's decision to come forward, I can only say he must do as he sees fit, and he does not need to answer to anyone here any more than I. We are responsible for our career, and the choices we make in it. I'm not revealing something that I'd hidden, but rather revealing something that I could hide, but chose not to. The original poster had a slightly different route, but to the same place; grounded, awaiting paperwork and word. His is legal and medical. Mine is merely medical.
Posters here occasionally bring up these sorts of things; sometimes medical, sometimes legal, in various forms, and my best advice, worth every penny one has paid (nothing), is to seek professional counseling; talk to the AME, talk to an attorney, talk to an advisory service (AOPA, AMAS, union, etc), and get informed, get help, and support and good counsel as to how to proceed. I also very strongly urge anyone who is considering trying to "get away" with a condition to set aside the professional impacts to career, and consider their own health, safety, and future. Don't simply live with a mental or emotional condition, or physical malady. These things can and do get worse without support and without help. Get the help you need: that comes first. While you're pursuing the help you need, do counsel with whatever resources are available, and make informed choices, and actions. But make them. We're all heavily invested in our careers, as are our families. A lot rides on our actions, and none of us take them lightly. Play it like chess; consider the ramifications of every move, several moves down the line. We're in a world of ripples; eventually those waves come back to us, possibly from directions we didn't suspect. Seek help, be open, destress. There are more than enough gotchas in this business without creating more.
The FAA subsequently issued a medical (and student pilot certificate) after a little back and forth, without limitations. I never went back to that doctor again.
When I got hit with a kidney stone, a big one, occluding one kidney, it was one of the most painful things I'd ever experienced. It made me extremely sick, and required surgery that night. I was due to start captain OE the next day, on the 747. I notified the chief pilot, to cover the trip, and his response to me was "let me know when you get your medical back." That was silly, I thought; it's a kidney stone. People have them all the time. Many never say a word. Lo, and behold, three months (and change) later, I was able to go back to work (following two more surgeries). Turns out that after a kidney stone, the FAA likes reassurance that the stone was a one-time thing, that it won't occur again (or isn't likely to) attested by medical professionals in the know. X-rays and ultrasounds were preferred (and obtained). I know a number of pilots who have had kidney stones and never said a word, or passed the stone and kept flying, and may or may not have reported it at their next exam. They were subject to the same rules as I; they simply "got away with it." Mine was a bit harder to hide, given that I went to an emergency room the night the stone made itself known.
Given how common a kidney stone is, one might suggest that if it's been passed, no harm, no foul. The FAA's requirement for documentation that the stone will not reasonably be expected to reccur might seem draconian. However, from personal experience, the level of pain was incapacitating. A pilot who passes a stone and doesn't report it, doesn't seek the additional documentation and verification, and later passes another...may very well be incapacitated in flight. Mine came on with very little warning. I thought it was an apendicitis when it first manifest. The policies and procedures are there for a reason.
Some years ago I was involved in close support of 19 firefighters who were killed on a very active wildfire, working alongside; an unarguably traumatic event, and was acosted the next morning by enraged evacuees from the fire who claimed we weren't doing enough to help them (what more do you want, folks? We're dying on your behalf). I had three calls that day and the next asking if I needed critical incident stress debriefing or a CISD team member support. I kept working through the fire, including an early-morning overflight of the body bags on the mountain on may way into the fire the next morning. I think most of us up there would have preferred to take a breather and a moment of silence to reflect or collect, but we weren't even allowed to stand by the roadside and salute as the remains passed. we were too busy either intermittently standing by, or fighting fire. We were in a can-do environment and we all had that approach to our job. Refusal speed was taxi speed, because beyond that, we were going. And we did. At the same time, there's a legitimate argument for intervention, for some counseling, for some down time. We do live in an indusry (notice I didn't merely say "work in an industry") in which we sit on things at times that we ought not. Many of us hail from a word that still practices "rub some dirt on it and get back in the game," and we don't think twice about that.
Presently I am grounded; it was a self-grounding, while I notified the FAA, via AMAS, of a condition that the FAA would not have discovered without my disclosure. I could likely have "gotten away" with it for a time; perhaps indefinitely. It's temporary (the grounding), but life-altering, too. We all make our choices, and to me this was clear. I didn't make it alone, but have been in touch with my own AME, sought counseling and support with AMAS, considered based on my own industry expereince, and acted based on all available information, and in the way I felt was ethically and professionally necessary. I impose nothing on anyone else in so doing; we are responsible for ourselves. To those who would question the original poster's decision to come forward, I can only say he must do as he sees fit, and he does not need to answer to anyone here any more than I. We are responsible for our career, and the choices we make in it. I'm not revealing something that I'd hidden, but rather revealing something that I could hide, but chose not to. The original poster had a slightly different route, but to the same place; grounded, awaiting paperwork and word. His is legal and medical. Mine is merely medical.
Posters here occasionally bring up these sorts of things; sometimes medical, sometimes legal, in various forms, and my best advice, worth every penny one has paid (nothing), is to seek professional counseling; talk to the AME, talk to an attorney, talk to an advisory service (AOPA, AMAS, union, etc), and get informed, get help, and support and good counsel as to how to proceed. I also very strongly urge anyone who is considering trying to "get away" with a condition to set aside the professional impacts to career, and consider their own health, safety, and future. Don't simply live with a mental or emotional condition, or physical malady. These things can and do get worse without support and without help. Get the help you need: that comes first. While you're pursuing the help you need, do counsel with whatever resources are available, and make informed choices, and actions. But make them. We're all heavily invested in our careers, as are our families. A lot rides on our actions, and none of us take them lightly. Play it like chess; consider the ramifications of every move, several moves down the line. We're in a world of ripples; eventually those waves come back to us, possibly from directions we didn't suspect. Seek help, be open, destress. There are more than enough gotchas in this business without creating more.
02-11-2024, 05:44 AM
#56
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: Window seat
Posts: 5,466
That's been the case for decades, and certainly contributed to the current mess with VA/FAA inconsistencies.
*** For anybody on AD, when mil docs, TAMP people, VA people, or VA facilitators tell you that "it won't be a problem for the airlines" you can be assured that THEY DO NOT KNOW WHAT THE $%^& THEY ARE TALKING ABOUT. Unless it's a flight surgeon who also has FAA 1C AME status (rare as hens teeth).
Yeah, same. Glad I erred on the conservative side.
*** For anybody on AD, when mil docs, TAMP people, VA people, or VA facilitators tell you that "it won't be a problem for the airlines" you can be assured that THEY DO NOT KNOW WHAT THE $%^& THEY ARE TALKING ABOUT. Unless it's a flight surgeon who also has FAA 1C AME status (rare as hens teeth).
Yeah, same. Glad I erred on the conservative side.
What's the FAA standard (at least true through 2010) - ulcer? Three month grounding. Bleeding ulcer? Six months grounding. I was fortunate that I didn't have a bledding ulcer. Malignant cancer. Grounding was limited to recovery from surgery and rebuilding the blood I'd lost. That took four months. Back on flying status 2 months earlier vs from a bleeding ulcer.
If you're a pilot talk to an FAA related expert - AME, union medical people, AMAS, etc *BEFORE* medical procedures. About a decade ago a guy posts "hey, I had stints put in. How long before I get my medical back?" Answer - "which type of stints did you get?" "Does it matter?" "Yes. The approved ones is a minimum of 6 months. The unapproved ones are permanently grounding because no heart surgeon will rip them out and replace them with FAA approved ones." :-0 Can you imagine that adrenaline spike???
03-02-2024, 07:41 AM
#57
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: Student Pilot
Posts: 2,277
What's the price of a clean conscience? It doesn't matter, ultimately, how it sits with others, or whether others think it's a wise idea. Each must live with himself, and the bottom line is that if it's important to an individual, then it's important. The original poster has sought legal counsel, has disclosed to the FAA, has coordinated with his union and with his employer, and already sacrificed to his service and country and met that burden. I have nothing but respect for someone who stands up and steps forward. Honesty is not dead. My hat is off, and I'm quite genuine is wishing him the absolute best in this endeavor. No excuses. No drama. A professional approach. One can't have possibly done this any better.
I'm glad that his attorney was consulted about this post; that having been cleared, I think the case and it's resolution will be valuable for others who may have similar matters to consider in their career. I look forward to hearing about the resolution.
I'm glad that his attorney was consulted about this post; that having been cleared, I think the case and it's resolution will be valuable for others who may have similar matters to consider in their career. I look forward to hearing about the resolution.
atp
03-16-2024, 01:39 AM
#58
Line Holder
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Jan 2024
Posts: 42
UPDATE!
UPDATE:
My lawyer has submitted my amendment to my past medical applications to the FAA. He is confident that no punitive action will be taken against me regarding certificates. It was quite the process, my entire army medical records, VA records, and any private records were submitted. This totaled around 250 pages worth of documentation (much of it fluff).
Now I am in the process of making appointments with the required specialists to apply for a SI medical certificate utilizing the SSRI protocol. This will be expensive. The “COG Screen” will be around 2K and the psychiatry appointment will be the same. After this I will see a HIMS AME and that will likely be expensive too. In the end it will be worth the money to hopefully have a clean slate. Nothing is guaranteed of course but I have to try. I am hopeful that I am back at work by this winter. I will update when I find out more.
My lawyer has submitted my amendment to my past medical applications to the FAA. He is confident that no punitive action will be taken against me regarding certificates. It was quite the process, my entire army medical records, VA records, and any private records were submitted. This totaled around 250 pages worth of documentation (much of it fluff).
Now I am in the process of making appointments with the required specialists to apply for a SI medical certificate utilizing the SSRI protocol. This will be expensive. The “COG Screen” will be around 2K and the psychiatry appointment will be the same. After this I will see a HIMS AME and that will likely be expensive too. In the end it will be worth the money to hopefully have a clean slate. Nothing is guaranteed of course but I have to try. I am hopeful that I am back at work by this winter. I will update when I find out more.
03-23-2024, 01:55 AM
#59
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: Student Pilot
Posts: 2,277
When I began flying, I was a kid, young teen, CAP cadet. My first AME visit yielded a hostile, crochety curmudgeoon doctor who hated kids (for years passengers and clients asked to see my drivers license to see if I was old enough). He happened to be an eye, ear, nose and throat specialist, and he gave me a full eye exam, which included bright lights and the old-fashioned giant contact lens apparatus to test intraocular eye pressure. I couldn't stand anything near my eye, and certainly not in my eye, and nothing he did in there was standard or part of a FAA medical exam, but he threw it at me anyway. When I couldn't deal with things be put in my eye, he said he'd just refuse to issue the medical, because "what good is a pilot who can't have stuff in his eye?" He asked what I'd do if something got in my eye on short final, and when I said "go around," it infuriated him. He deferred me, not for the eye, but becuase I was asthmatic.
The FAA subsequently issued a medical (and student pilot certificate) after a little back and forth, without limitations. I never went back to that doctor again.
When I got hit with a kidney stone, a big one, occluding one kidney, it was one of the most painful things I'd ever experienced. It made me extremely sick, and required surgery that night. I was due to start captain OE the next day, on the 747. I notified the chief pilot, to cover the trip, and his response to me was "let me know when you get your medical back." That was silly, I thought; it's a kidney stone. People have them all the time. Many never say a word. Lo, and behold, three months (and change) later, I was able to go back to work (following two more surgeries). Turns out that after a kidney stone, the FAA likes reassurance that the stone was a one-time thing, that it won't occur again (or isn't likely to) attested by medical professionals in the know. X-rays and ultrasounds were preferred (and obtained). I know a number of pilots who have had kidney stones and never said a word, or passed the stone and kept flying, and may or may not have reported it at their next exam. They were subject to the same rules as I; they simply "got away with it." Mine was a bit harder to hide, given that I went to an emergency room the night the stone made itself known.
Given how common a kidney stone is, one might suggest that if it's been passed, no harm, no foul. The FAA's requirement for documentation that the stone will not reasonably be expected to reccur might seem draconian. However, from personal experience, the level of pain was incapacitating. A pilot who passes a stone and doesn't report it, doesn't seek the additional documentation and verification, and later passes another...may very well be incapacitated in flight. Mine came on with very little warning. I thought it was an apendicitis when it first manifest. The policies and procedures are there for a reason.
Some years ago I was involved in close support of 19 firefighters who were killed on a very active wildfire, working alongside; an unarguably traumatic event, and was acosted the next morning by enraged evacuees from the fire who claimed we weren't doing enough to help them (what more do you want, folks? We're dying on your behalf). I had three calls that day and the next asking if I needed critical incident stress debriefing or a CISD team member support. I kept working through the fire, including an early-morning overflight of the body bags on the mountain on may way into the fire the next morning. I think most of us up there would have preferred to take a breather and a moment of silence to reflect or collect, but we weren't even allowed to stand by the roadside and salute as the remains passed. we were too busy either intermittently standing by, or fighting fire. We were in a can-do environment and we all had that approach to our job. Refusal speed was taxi speed, because beyond that, we were going. And we did. At the same time, there's a legitimate argument for intervention, for some counseling, for some down time. We do live in an indusry (notice I didn't merely say "work in an industry") in which we sit on things at times that we ought not. Many of us hail from a word that still practices "rub some dirt on it and get back in the game," and we don't think twice about that.
Presently I am grounded; it was a self-grounding, while I notified the FAA, via AMAS, of a condition that the FAA would not have discovered without my disclosure. I could likely have "gotten away" with it for a time; perhaps indefinitely. It's temporary (the grounding), but life-altering, too. We all make our choices, and to me this was clear. I didn't make it alone, but have been in touch with my own AME, sought counseling and support with AMAS, considered based on my own industry expereince, and acted based on all available information, and in the way I felt was ethically and professionally necessary. I impose nothing on anyone else in so doing; we are responsible for ourselves. To those who would question the original poster's decision to come forward, I can only say he must do as he sees fit, and he does not need to answer to anyone here any more than I. We are responsible for our career, and the choices we make in it. I'm not revealing something that I'd hidden, but rather revealing something that I could hide, but chose not to. The original poster had a slightly different route, but to the same place; grounded, awaiting paperwork and word. His is legal and medical. Mine is merely medical.
Posters here occasionally bring up these sorts of things; sometimes medical, sometimes legal, in various forms, and my best advice, worth every penny one has paid (nothing), is to seek professional counseling; talk to the AME, talk to an attorney, talk to an advisory service (AOPA, AMAS, union, etc), and get informed, get help, and support and good counsel as to how to proceed. I also very strongly urge anyone who is considering trying to "get away" with a condition to set aside the professional impacts to career, and consider their own health, safety, and future. Don't simply live with a mental or emotional condition, or physical malady. These things can and do get worse without support and without help. Get the help you need: that comes first. While you're pursuing the help you need, do counsel with whatever resources are available, and make informed choices, and actions. But make them. We're all heavily invested in our careers, as are our families. A lot rides on our actions, and none of us take them lightly. Play it like chess; consider the ramifications of every move, several moves down the line. We're in a world of ripples; eventually those waves come back to us, possibly from directions we didn't suspect. Seek help, be open, destress. There are more than enough gotchas in this business without creating more.
The FAA subsequently issued a medical (and student pilot certificate) after a little back and forth, without limitations. I never went back to that doctor again.
When I got hit with a kidney stone, a big one, occluding one kidney, it was one of the most painful things I'd ever experienced. It made me extremely sick, and required surgery that night. I was due to start captain OE the next day, on the 747. I notified the chief pilot, to cover the trip, and his response to me was "let me know when you get your medical back." That was silly, I thought; it's a kidney stone. People have them all the time. Many never say a word. Lo, and behold, three months (and change) later, I was able to go back to work (following two more surgeries). Turns out that after a kidney stone, the FAA likes reassurance that the stone was a one-time thing, that it won't occur again (or isn't likely to) attested by medical professionals in the know. X-rays and ultrasounds were preferred (and obtained). I know a number of pilots who have had kidney stones and never said a word, or passed the stone and kept flying, and may or may not have reported it at their next exam. They were subject to the same rules as I; they simply "got away with it." Mine was a bit harder to hide, given that I went to an emergency room the night the stone made itself known.
Given how common a kidney stone is, one might suggest that if it's been passed, no harm, no foul. The FAA's requirement for documentation that the stone will not reasonably be expected to reccur might seem draconian. However, from personal experience, the level of pain was incapacitating. A pilot who passes a stone and doesn't report it, doesn't seek the additional documentation and verification, and later passes another...may very well be incapacitated in flight. Mine came on with very little warning. I thought it was an apendicitis when it first manifest. The policies and procedures are there for a reason.
Some years ago I was involved in close support of 19 firefighters who were killed on a very active wildfire, working alongside; an unarguably traumatic event, and was acosted the next morning by enraged evacuees from the fire who claimed we weren't doing enough to help them (what more do you want, folks? We're dying on your behalf). I had three calls that day and the next asking if I needed critical incident stress debriefing or a CISD team member support. I kept working through the fire, including an early-morning overflight of the body bags on the mountain on may way into the fire the next morning. I think most of us up there would have preferred to take a breather and a moment of silence to reflect or collect, but we weren't even allowed to stand by the roadside and salute as the remains passed. we were too busy either intermittently standing by, or fighting fire. We were in a can-do environment and we all had that approach to our job. Refusal speed was taxi speed, because beyond that, we were going. And we did. At the same time, there's a legitimate argument for intervention, for some counseling, for some down time. We do live in an indusry (notice I didn't merely say "work in an industry") in which we sit on things at times that we ought not. Many of us hail from a word that still practices "rub some dirt on it and get back in the game," and we don't think twice about that.
Presently I am grounded; it was a self-grounding, while I notified the FAA, via AMAS, of a condition that the FAA would not have discovered without my disclosure. I could likely have "gotten away" with it for a time; perhaps indefinitely. It's temporary (the grounding), but life-altering, too. We all make our choices, and to me this was clear. I didn't make it alone, but have been in touch with my own AME, sought counseling and support with AMAS, considered based on my own industry expereince, and acted based on all available information, and in the way I felt was ethically and professionally necessary. I impose nothing on anyone else in so doing; we are responsible for ourselves. To those who would question the original poster's decision to come forward, I can only say he must do as he sees fit, and he does not need to answer to anyone here any more than I. We are responsible for our career, and the choices we make in it. I'm not revealing something that I'd hidden, but rather revealing something that I could hide, but chose not to. The original poster had a slightly different route, but to the same place; grounded, awaiting paperwork and word. His is legal and medical. Mine is merely medical.
Posters here occasionally bring up these sorts of things; sometimes medical, sometimes legal, in various forms, and my best advice, worth every penny one has paid (nothing), is to seek professional counseling; talk to the AME, talk to an attorney, talk to an advisory service (AOPA, AMAS, union, etc), and get informed, get help, and support and good counsel as to how to proceed. I also very strongly urge anyone who is considering trying to "get away" with a condition to set aside the professional impacts to career, and consider their own health, safety, and future. Don't simply live with a mental or emotional condition, or physical malady. These things can and do get worse without support and without help. Get the help you need: that comes first. While you're pursuing the help you need, do counsel with whatever resources are available, and make informed choices, and actions. But make them. We're all heavily invested in our careers, as are our families. A lot rides on our actions, and none of us take them lightly. Play it like chess; consider the ramifications of every move, several moves down the line. We're in a world of ripples; eventually those waves come back to us, possibly from directions we didn't suspect. Seek help, be open, destress. There are more than enough gotchas in this business without creating more.
JB:
Wow! Man...you talk about shooting straight from the hip! I applaud & honor you sir in what you think and the way how you think. You are the epitome of character & integrity in the aviation profession. I will follw suit when I submit my 8500. Transparency, with consistency and continuity in being forthright in disclosure is imperative and paramount. Thank you for the motivation to continue to do what's right and proper.
All the best. Blue skies
Marcus
(atpwannabe)
05-06-2024, 06:33 AM
#60
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2021
Posts: 366
UPS is definitely a good option. I know a couple of long-haul truckers that love it, but I suppose everything relevant. Going from flying to driving and much less money, I may think it sucks in the end. I am hoping that I can get on with Flight Safety to be honest. That will be my priority because I already have experience and knowledge in that area. That would be the smart play.
It’s not an easy job/career. Over the road trucking especially. With over the road, you will typically be gone from home for way longer than you were as a commercial pilot. Like several weeks gone. The schedules vary significantly from operator to operator. Expect the average company you drive for to abuse you and use you. I would recommend local driving for companies like UPS and other LTL carriers like Old dominion, R&L, AAA cooper, Saia, FedEx, etc. etc. I never worked for any of the LTL carriers but I did work for a crappy small startup company and the schedule was horrible. I only did it for about a year and couldn’t imagine doing something like that for a career. Met some who had been trucking for their whole lives and they are a special breed of person. The job can also take its toll on you long term. Mental health is a big problem with career truckers. They are the same as pilots, they hide their mental health conditions.
Again, this applies to mainly over the road trucking. Would not recommend coming from your position and with kids. If you have to do trucking, definitely recommend LTL freight. I believe most if not all those companies allow you to be home every night.
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