Letters of Investigation for VA benefits
03-15-2024, 05:29 PM
#71
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2023
Posts: 1,520
Don't bank on that. We can spend from now until the second coming sharing anecdotes about such discoveries. I've seen it first hand, and have shared and listened to and read enough others to fill vollumes, but the FAA can and does get wind of failures to disclose. A favorite was the pilot who lost a son, who was buried at an airport that the pilot flew over on his departure. During a conversation with a reporter, the pilot remarked that every time he flew over that cemetary, he silently said a prayer for his son. It made print, human interest. Touching, and all that. The FAA got hold of it. Grounded him. His remark, they said, showed, an inability to adjust. He was grieving far too long. A very expensive journey back to the cockpit.
Paperwork can arise through other investigations, via insurance, and other avenues. I've relayed here the case of an airman I knew, violated by an inspector I knew, for remarks made during a church service. That case wasn't medical; the private pilot had flown a friend, and the friend bought him lunch. Compensation. The inspector was in the congregation that day, heard it, caught up with the private pilot in the foyer, and that was that. The private pilot left the church in tears.
Pilots report other pilots. Word gets around. Rumors. The FAA finds out. Failure to disclose is a big deal. It's far from isolated to military aviators.
The. FAA enforces and investigates everyone. The FAA didn't start the most recent investigation of military personnel receiving benefits. The FAA refused the DoD's efforts to get the FAA to become involved, until the DoD took legal action to force the FAA to comply. This is not the first time. The FAA has also done similar investigations with State databases that were not military, with social security, etc. In this particular case, the FAA did not go to the DoD. The Department of Defense (VA) went to the FAA and pressured the FAA.
Negative. The FAA may request and review at any time, and does. Because you provided documentation once, doesn't mean you won't have to provide it again. That documentation may be the same as previously provided, but the investigation may be tangential to the existing special issuance, medical certificate, airman file, it. The FAA may be investigating a doctor, or AME. One is subject to investigation as the holder of an FAA certificate, be it medical pilot, mechanic, instructor, flight engineer, etc. Every bit as much as an airman inside the SiDA, or John Q Public, is always subject to search of person or property at any time, badged and credentialed or not, as a condition of entry. One is subject to inspection and review at any juncture, by the FAA.
I had kidney stones, a number of years ago now. The FAA allows one event, but the airman must show that repeat occurrences are not anticipated, and that the airman is stone-free. It can be a debilitating event. Most people don't get kidney stones again, but the FAA could very easily call for that documentation once more, and in the interest of verifying that no stones have occurred, request new evidence, such as x-rays, ultrasound, etc. Provide it, or find another career. Military or not. It doesn't matter.
The FAA Adminstrator is charged by an Act of Congress to promote aviation, regulate aviation and oversee aviation safety, the three prong charter from which the FAA is responsible for issuance of medicals and pilot certificates. There is no right to either one. Both are privileges. Those privileges are congtingent on adherence to the regulation and policy, as well as safety. The FAA is concerned with both . One may take a common medication over the counter, and the FAA may not have a concern about the medication (or may), but is always concerned with the underlying condition for which the medication is taken. Aviation medicine is not taken lightly, nor should it be.
The Standards for a first class medical go far beyond what you may have read in Part 67 (you have read it, right?). It's medicine. It's not simply black and white, pass-fail. A lot of it is subjective. Some of it is likely completely transparent to you, when you get our exam. Did you know that you'd been evaluated psychologically, to the satisfaction of the AME, each time you'd been in, just as a function of the conversation you had? What you think is no big deal, may be. What you think is insurmountable, may not be. Special issuances are not forever; they come with conditions and renewal/expirations, and are subject to review. A first class medical is not what most think it to be. Get a head-cold,and your medical certificate is not valid for use; it's only valid when you meet the standards, and if you operate in an unairworthy condition (blocked sinus, for example), you're operating without a valid medical certificate. Most airmen know they shouldn't fly if sick, but many do anyway, and many don't really grasp the true meaning of the validity of their certificate. Simply because you have the paper in hand doesn't mean one-and-done. It doesn't work that way, and I find far fewer who know that, than are ignorant of the fact.
Medical conditions are individualistic; one can't say "type II diabetes is approved," for example, and think that the FAA owes one certification when one is diagnosed with Type II diabetes. Some cases, the FAA AME may issue; others the FAA provides special issuance, and other cases, the FAA may decline to issue. It comes down to each individual case. If your buddy had type 2 and got a medical, and you have type II and are refused, you might think this unfair...after all, he got his medical, so you're owed one too. But not remotely so. Each airman's case is considered on its own merits, and it may be the specific condition, or it may be the relationship between multiple conditions, or the interaction of certain medications, etc. The FAA does have a reason for asking for certain documentation, though you may not always be informed about the specifics.
When you say the FAA "need not be concerned," rest assured that the FAA is very concerned, and has every right, responsibility, and authority to be concerned, and to investigate and to obtain documentation today, tomorrow, and a year from tomorrow. The FAA issues the certificate and regulates it. If you've been issued a medical certificate, this doesn't grant carte blanche to use it without limitation until it comes due, again. Pull out your medical certifiate and read the limitations on the back. You must carry it at all times when exercising its privileges. The FAA can reverse it at any time within 60 days of issuance (and can revoke or suspend it at any time). You must continuously comply with the validity standards for your class of medical (if at any time you don't meet them, you can't use the privileges of the certificate). You must comply with any statement or limitation on the certificate (eg, corrective lenses required, etc). You Must also comply with standards relating to prohibition of operation during medical deficiency. You may feel fine, but that's irrelevant. If you don't meet the standard due to a deficiency, you can't use the certificate, as it's not valid during medical deficiency.
It's a very unwise approach to think the FAA won't find out. If the FAA does find out, you've arrived at that undesirable point when the music stops and you have no chair. Don't expect it to go well, military, or not.
THe FAA does not require that. It is not a medical condition upon which medical certification is contingent. However, if one were to see a medical professional for whatever caused the diarrhea, then one would be required to disclose that. As previously noted, each case is individual: if one were to have severe diarrhea/dysentary as a result of contracting cholera, for example, you'd both ground yourself (your medical wouldn't be valid), and you'd report it ("disclose" it).
A temporary condition may not require disclosure, but again, it's subjective. Moreover, if one isn't medically fit, as previously discussed, then one may not exercise the medical certificate. If one thinks one won't be caught, one may take one's chances. Very unwise.
As an aside, I can tell you about three cases when I had my sinuses blown out, in flight, and ended up receiving emergency care, and it hasn't happened to you, rest assured that you don't want that experience. It is incapacitating. Same for blown eardrums. Trust me on that, too. Same for filling that vents into the jaw and the nerve. I experienced that at eighteen thousand on a parachute jump, once. One of the less-pleasant things I recall in aviation. The specifics aren't necessary here, but I can't think of anything that I haven't discussed at length with my AME. It has cost me downtime.
I'm grounded right now, as I have detailed on this site before. This isn't academic hot air.
It may, or may not, depending on the individual, and the FAA is conerned about both the medication and the underlying condition, and any interations with other medications, too. Seeing as you brought it up, however, severe allergies do require a FAA decision and supporting documentation: https://www.faa.gov/ame_guide/app_process/exam_tech/item35/amd/allergies
Depending on the condition and individual a medical might be issued, declined, or conditions established, to include special issuance, and any medications must also be factored in.
There is no contradiction.
One can hold disability with the VA/DoD, and still hold a medical certificate. That the VA cites something as a disability does not mean it prevents one from flying or holding a given class of airman medical certificate. Two diffent organizations, and two different standards. This is not contradictory. The does not set, observe, or determine FAA medical standards. The FAA does not utilize VA standards to deterine FAA medical certification. The VA can declare an individual disabled within its framework, for its purposes, and this places no burden on the FAA to declare that airman unairworthy. The FAA makes decisions related to its own jurisdiction. The FAA is certainly interested in disclosure of a disability rating, because this is a legal requirement, and because it may or may not represent an issue of airworthiness to the FAA. The FAA will make that decision, as it does in all cases regarding airman certification. The VA decides for the VA. The FAA decides for the FAA.
Not a contradiction.
Hearing loss is the most common disability among servicemen, by orders of magnitude.
Does the FAA test for hearing? YES. You may not know it, but the FAA does, and when the AME issues your medical, he is certifying that he has determined that you meet the standard. There are more methods than one, to make that determination; like many other things, you may not realize that the AME has evaluated you or made that determination.
The VA/DoD may issue a disability rating based on hearing loss of tinnitus. This places no burden on the FAA to limit an airman's medical standard, but each medical is individual.
https://www.faa.gov/ame_guide/app_process/exam_tech/et/25-30/middle_ear
The FAA, incidentally, by regulation (67.105, .205, .305) requires that an applicant hear a spoken voice at six feet, with his back turned to the speaker. You may have been spoken to, and not know you were being tested.
Tinnitus is symptomatic; it may be indicative of a number of things, and it may be the underlying condition that's significant (eg, acoustic neuroma, or Meniere's syndrome. It may not. My ears ring all the time; it's loud. I can pass a medical and a hearing exam, but my hearing isn't great. Far too many years of turbojet engines, even louder radial engines, gunfire, etc. I sleep with a TV on for the noise, which lessens the effect of the constant ringing, but I hear it right now, and yes, it's been disclosed. While this, and many other things are valid for a military disability, they do not bar medical certification by the FAA; different standards, different purposes, different effects, different outcomes, different criteria and difficluties. This is not contradictory. If the VA/DoD finds a condition to be worthy of a disability rating, neither the VA or DoD presume to determine if the individual is physically fit to hold FAA medical certification. It's irrelevant. Likewise, the FAA's decision to grant an airman medical certificate does NOT invalidate a DoD disability rating.
https://www.aviationmedicine.com/article/hearing-loss/
Paperwork can arise through other investigations, via insurance, and other avenues. I've relayed here the case of an airman I knew, violated by an inspector I knew, for remarks made during a church service. That case wasn't medical; the private pilot had flown a friend, and the friend bought him lunch. Compensation. The inspector was in the congregation that day, heard it, caught up with the private pilot in the foyer, and that was that. The private pilot left the church in tears.
Pilots report other pilots. Word gets around. Rumors. The FAA finds out. Failure to disclose is a big deal. It's far from isolated to military aviators.
The. FAA enforces and investigates everyone. The FAA didn't start the most recent investigation of military personnel receiving benefits. The FAA refused the DoD's efforts to get the FAA to become involved, until the DoD took legal action to force the FAA to comply. This is not the first time. The FAA has also done similar investigations with State databases that were not military, with social security, etc. In this particular case, the FAA did not go to the DoD. The Department of Defense (VA) went to the FAA and pressured the FAA.
Negative. The FAA may request and review at any time, and does. Because you provided documentation once, doesn't mean you won't have to provide it again. That documentation may be the same as previously provided, but the investigation may be tangential to the existing special issuance, medical certificate, airman file, it. The FAA may be investigating a doctor, or AME. One is subject to investigation as the holder of an FAA certificate, be it medical pilot, mechanic, instructor, flight engineer, etc. Every bit as much as an airman inside the SiDA, or John Q Public, is always subject to search of person or property at any time, badged and credentialed or not, as a condition of entry. One is subject to inspection and review at any juncture, by the FAA.
I had kidney stones, a number of years ago now. The FAA allows one event, but the airman must show that repeat occurrences are not anticipated, and that the airman is stone-free. It can be a debilitating event. Most people don't get kidney stones again, but the FAA could very easily call for that documentation once more, and in the interest of verifying that no stones have occurred, request new evidence, such as x-rays, ultrasound, etc. Provide it, or find another career. Military or not. It doesn't matter.
The FAA Adminstrator is charged by an Act of Congress to promote aviation, regulate aviation and oversee aviation safety, the three prong charter from which the FAA is responsible for issuance of medicals and pilot certificates. There is no right to either one. Both are privileges. Those privileges are congtingent on adherence to the regulation and policy, as well as safety. The FAA is concerned with both . One may take a common medication over the counter, and the FAA may not have a concern about the medication (or may), but is always concerned with the underlying condition for which the medication is taken. Aviation medicine is not taken lightly, nor should it be.
The Standards for a first class medical go far beyond what you may have read in Part 67 (you have read it, right?). It's medicine. It's not simply black and white, pass-fail. A lot of it is subjective. Some of it is likely completely transparent to you, when you get our exam. Did you know that you'd been evaluated psychologically, to the satisfaction of the AME, each time you'd been in, just as a function of the conversation you had? What you think is no big deal, may be. What you think is insurmountable, may not be. Special issuances are not forever; they come with conditions and renewal/expirations, and are subject to review. A first class medical is not what most think it to be. Get a head-cold,and your medical certificate is not valid for use; it's only valid when you meet the standards, and if you operate in an unairworthy condition (blocked sinus, for example), you're operating without a valid medical certificate. Most airmen know they shouldn't fly if sick, but many do anyway, and many don't really grasp the true meaning of the validity of their certificate. Simply because you have the paper in hand doesn't mean one-and-done. It doesn't work that way, and I find far fewer who know that, than are ignorant of the fact.
Medical conditions are individualistic; one can't say "type II diabetes is approved," for example, and think that the FAA owes one certification when one is diagnosed with Type II diabetes. Some cases, the FAA AME may issue; others the FAA provides special issuance, and other cases, the FAA may decline to issue. It comes down to each individual case. If your buddy had type 2 and got a medical, and you have type II and are refused, you might think this unfair...after all, he got his medical, so you're owed one too. But not remotely so. Each airman's case is considered on its own merits, and it may be the specific condition, or it may be the relationship between multiple conditions, or the interaction of certain medications, etc. The FAA does have a reason for asking for certain documentation, though you may not always be informed about the specifics.
When you say the FAA "need not be concerned," rest assured that the FAA is very concerned, and has every right, responsibility, and authority to be concerned, and to investigate and to obtain documentation today, tomorrow, and a year from tomorrow. The FAA issues the certificate and regulates it. If you've been issued a medical certificate, this doesn't grant carte blanche to use it without limitation until it comes due, again. Pull out your medical certifiate and read the limitations on the back. You must carry it at all times when exercising its privileges. The FAA can reverse it at any time within 60 days of issuance (and can revoke or suspend it at any time). You must continuously comply with the validity standards for your class of medical (if at any time you don't meet them, you can't use the privileges of the certificate). You must comply with any statement or limitation on the certificate (eg, corrective lenses required, etc). You Must also comply with standards relating to prohibition of operation during medical deficiency. You may feel fine, but that's irrelevant. If you don't meet the standard due to a deficiency, you can't use the certificate, as it's not valid during medical deficiency.
It's a very unwise approach to think the FAA won't find out. If the FAA does find out, you've arrived at that undesirable point when the music stops and you have no chair. Don't expect it to go well, military, or not.
THe FAA does not require that. It is not a medical condition upon which medical certification is contingent. However, if one were to see a medical professional for whatever caused the diarrhea, then one would be required to disclose that. As previously noted, each case is individual: if one were to have severe diarrhea/dysentary as a result of contracting cholera, for example, you'd both ground yourself (your medical wouldn't be valid), and you'd report it ("disclose" it).
A temporary condition may not require disclosure, but again, it's subjective. Moreover, if one isn't medically fit, as previously discussed, then one may not exercise the medical certificate. If one thinks one won't be caught, one may take one's chances. Very unwise.
As an aside, I can tell you about three cases when I had my sinuses blown out, in flight, and ended up receiving emergency care, and it hasn't happened to you, rest assured that you don't want that experience. It is incapacitating. Same for blown eardrums. Trust me on that, too. Same for filling that vents into the jaw and the nerve. I experienced that at eighteen thousand on a parachute jump, once. One of the less-pleasant things I recall in aviation. The specifics aren't necessary here, but I can't think of anything that I haven't discussed at length with my AME. It has cost me downtime.
I'm grounded right now, as I have detailed on this site before. This isn't academic hot air.
It may, or may not, depending on the individual, and the FAA is conerned about both the medication and the underlying condition, and any interations with other medications, too. Seeing as you brought it up, however, severe allergies do require a FAA decision and supporting documentation: https://www.faa.gov/ame_guide/app_process/exam_tech/item35/amd/allergies
Depending on the condition and individual a medical might be issued, declined, or conditions established, to include special issuance, and any medications must also be factored in.
There is no contradiction.
One can hold disability with the VA/DoD, and still hold a medical certificate. That the VA cites something as a disability does not mean it prevents one from flying or holding a given class of airman medical certificate. Two diffent organizations, and two different standards. This is not contradictory. The does not set, observe, or determine FAA medical standards. The FAA does not utilize VA standards to deterine FAA medical certification. The VA can declare an individual disabled within its framework, for its purposes, and this places no burden on the FAA to declare that airman unairworthy. The FAA makes decisions related to its own jurisdiction. The FAA is certainly interested in disclosure of a disability rating, because this is a legal requirement, and because it may or may not represent an issue of airworthiness to the FAA. The FAA will make that decision, as it does in all cases regarding airman certification. The VA decides for the VA. The FAA decides for the FAA.
Not a contradiction.
Hearing loss is the most common disability among servicemen, by orders of magnitude.
Does the FAA test for hearing? YES. You may not know it, but the FAA does, and when the AME issues your medical, he is certifying that he has determined that you meet the standard. There are more methods than one, to make that determination; like many other things, you may not realize that the AME has evaluated you or made that determination.
The VA/DoD may issue a disability rating based on hearing loss of tinnitus. This places no burden on the FAA to limit an airman's medical standard, but each medical is individual.
https://www.faa.gov/ame_guide/app_process/exam_tech/et/25-30/middle_ear
The FAA, incidentally, by regulation (67.105, .205, .305) requires that an applicant hear a spoken voice at six feet, with his back turned to the speaker. You may have been spoken to, and not know you were being tested.
Tinnitus is symptomatic; it may be indicative of a number of things, and it may be the underlying condition that's significant (eg, acoustic neuroma, or Meniere's syndrome. It may not. My ears ring all the time; it's loud. I can pass a medical and a hearing exam, but my hearing isn't great. Far too many years of turbojet engines, even louder radial engines, gunfire, etc. I sleep with a TV on for the noise, which lessens the effect of the constant ringing, but I hear it right now, and yes, it's been disclosed. While this, and many other things are valid for a military disability, they do not bar medical certification by the FAA; different standards, different purposes, different effects, different outcomes, different criteria and difficluties. This is not contradictory. If the VA/DoD finds a condition to be worthy of a disability rating, neither the VA or DoD presume to determine if the individual is physically fit to hold FAA medical certification. It's irrelevant. Likewise, the FAA's decision to grant an airman medical certificate does NOT invalidate a DoD disability rating.
https://www.aviationmedicine.com/article/hearing-loss/
However, with the former mil folks, they can. Again, the VA guys, from what I'm told, look for anything in your med records to get you a favorable disability rating. The FAA now has access and can ask for your records of such. So as they look at the laundry list of things on it that inlcudes your paid disability rating(s) (my brother's is 8-9 pages of stuff) - what if you have on your VA form Right Hyperphoria? It's not disqualifying for the FAA, heck they don't even test for it. So by one being honest and self disclosing and providing the information ALREADY for your SI, and totally unrelated to such, they ask for it again? Maybe now they decide that you need to get that right hyperphoria checked, but wait, you pass the first class medical. But no, we see it here in the record, that you already provided and we've looked at for the last X years, that now we the FAA have suddenly decided that you are now required to resolve it to their satisfaction even though no other medical holder is tested for it. What if you had a rotator cuff rating, say it was zero (no $$). The Faa could ask for you to undergo a mobility check couldn't they? Not required by any other class medical holder. The SI received was totally unrelated, but the FAA decided that you needed to go thru this only becasue now they have all the "conditions" the VA rated (even zero) for service and non-service connected disabilities.
this isn't about meds, this isn't about any of that. This is guys and gals, like my brother, who followed the rules, self disclosed, worked thru the SI process, provided ALL the information and yet are being asked for it again. This is not what happens to civilians. I'm a civilian, I have an SI, and I've never been asked for any records other than what is required to maintian my SI. They have never asked me for the records I used 15 years aog when I originally applied for the SI. I only provide them with what is required annually to maintain my SI. Nothing more.
Fishing expedition. Targeted against one group.
Truly, if the FAA wanted to they could tell the DoD, specifically the VA, to pound sand. As you said earlier - "certain conditions that are rated as disability do not preclude issuance of the FAA medical" You said that came directly from CAMI. So why is the FAA asking for these VA records again?
You didn't answer my original question.
Last edited by Hotel Kilo; 03-15-2024 at 05:53 PM.
03-15-2024, 06:13 PM
#72
Disinterested Third Party
Joined APC: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,261
this isn't about meds, this isn't about any of that. This is guys, like my brother, who followed the rules, self disclosed, worked thru the SI process, provided ALL the information and yet are being asked for it again. This is not what happens to civilians. I'm a civilian, I have an SI, and I've never been asked for any records other than what is required to maintian my SI.
Your brother holds a special issuance. He is subject to a requirement to provide any and all information requested by the FAA at any time during the valid period of his special issuance. All airman, and all holders of special issuance are subject to this same requirement; the FAA issues the certificate, and the exemptions, and the FAA can take them away, re-examine them, or require more data. That is the FAA's perrogative.
Whether you have been asked for additional information is irrelevant, and poses no burden on the FAA; the FAA can and does ask whom it will, what it will, for its purposes, as the authority who has the responsibility to do so. You don't get to dictate what the FAA asks for. The FAA dictates; you provide. It's that simple.
This is not about military vs. civilian, and your brother does not hold a military special issuance. That's a FAA special issuance. Military, or civilian makes no difference. The FAA has requested documentation, and he will provide it, or may find himself without a special issuance or medical. Again, it's that simple.
Oh, there is, and the FAA does it all the time. You can refuse to provide data to the FAA. The FAA can also refuse to issue a medical certificate. Keep in mind that you do not have a right to a FAA airman medical certificate, nor to a pilot certificate.
Get wind of it? How? If you had a condition and kept it from your AME and never discussed it with anyone, there is no way the FAA could go on a fishing expedition to find you out. None (unless they filed for SS disability). So long as they continue to pass their class 1 no one is going to know anything. I'm not talking about getting in a major car wreck that requires hospitalization, cancer or other stuff. Just simple things that a mil person would require an SI for but undisclosed a civilian would never have to deal with.
Your argument seems to be that you can get away with it. You sure that's how you want to roll?
Your argument seems to be that military personnel who seek a military disability rating (somthing military personnel must seek, to obtain benefits) are somehow rooted out by the FAA in a quest to unfairly target disabled military personnel. This is not true, and you do not understand either process.
The FAA did not target military personnel. The VA targed FAA certificate holders, while the VA was looking for disability fraud. The FAA tried to stay out of it, until the VA brought legal action.
The FAA has long required applicants to disclose diability claims. Read your airman medical application form. Item 18.y doesn't cite military disability benefits. The applicant is asked if (s)he has, or has ever had medical disability benefits . You could argue that you could get away with some benefits by hiding them from the FAA, and maybe you could, for a time. The FAA can and does discover such things by other means than self-disclosure. Perhaps you hide it for ten years but it shows up during an application for a special issueance for something entirely unrelated, in insurance paperwork, etc (which may become relevant and discovered); now you have a crime on your hands, instead of something you could have disclosed properly. Hide and violate the regulation at your peril, and kepe chanting to yourself that the FAA won't find out. Good luck.
Most of your comments are flawed in premise, and we could address that, but you're not listening, you're beating a drum for your own benefit, and you are agenda-driven here. Your implicit bias is wrong, but very apparent, and any effort to educate you on this matter is clearly wasted. Your commentary smacks of a fantasy world, and is far removed from reality. I focus on reality. If you make it back this way, stop in and say hi...but don't bring your assumptions and agenda with you. We won't be having that conversation again.
03-15-2024, 06:24 PM
#73
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2023
Posts: 1,520
JohnBurke:
EDIT TO ADD TO THE ABOVE:
The VA provides a laundry list of things to include that which is service connected and disability rating to include those things that one recevied payments from the VA. My brother has 8 or 9 things on his report. Only one is what he receives disability $$ for and that is for his OSA and why he has an SI. The rest are just things the VA reviewer pulled out from his 25 years of medical records. He sent that report in to the FAA already, for his original SI issuance. The other 7 or 8 items are not paid, and of those, 3 are not service connected. Why is the FAA asking him for this again? Why?
No civilian has to go thru this. Like I said, I have an SI as well. For my initial issuance I provided all the tests and titration info for my prescirbed medication. I provide only what I need annually to renew my SI. The FAA doesn't get a laundry list of my medical records review. They only get, by law, what is required to maintain my SI and they never ask for additional information outside of that which is salient to my SI renewal. These mil folks are giving the FAA a list of things, many are not applicable to holding a class 1 medical, yet now the FAA can, if they so decide, to have something "else" looked and verified. That is not fair, it's wrong and that is why I called it a fishing expedition. No other demographinc has to submit to this level of intrusion. Now, if the FAA was looking for things relating to his SI, then that is fair. But they are not. They want the VA disability rating report, something he's already provided, to be submitted again. If he doesn't they will withhold his medical. That is not fair, right or just.
However, with the former mil folks, they can. Again, the VA guys, from what I'm told, look for anything in your med records to get you a favorable disability rating. The FAA now has access and can ask for your records of such. So as they look at the laundry list of things on it that inlcudes your paid disability rating(s) (my brother's is 8-9 pages of stuff) - what if you have on your VA form Right Hyperphoria? It's not disqualifying for the FAA, heck they don't even test for it. So by one being honest and self disclosing and providing the information ALREADY for your SI, and totally unrelated to such, they ask for it again? Maybe now they decide that you need to get that right hyperphoria checked, but wait, you pass the first class medical. But no, we see it here in the record, that you already provided and we've looked at for the last X years, that now we the FAA have suddenly decided that you are now required to resolve it to their satisfaction even though no other medical holder is tested for it. What if you had a rotator cuff rating, say it was zero (no $$). The Faa could ask for you to undergo a mobility check couldn't they? Not required by any other class medical holder. The SI received was totally unrelated, but the FAA decided that you needed to go thru this only becasue now they have all the "conditions" the VA rated (even zero) for service and non-service connected disabilities.
The VA provides a laundry list of things to include that which is service connected and disability rating to include those things that one recevied payments from the VA. My brother has 8 or 9 things on his report. Only one is what he receives disability $$ for and that is for his OSA and why he has an SI. The rest are just things the VA reviewer pulled out from his 25 years of medical records. He sent that report in to the FAA already, for his original SI issuance. The other 7 or 8 items are not paid, and of those, 3 are not service connected. Why is the FAA asking him for this again? Why?
No civilian has to go thru this. Like I said, I have an SI as well. For my initial issuance I provided all the tests and titration info for my prescirbed medication. I provide only what I need annually to renew my SI. The FAA doesn't get a laundry list of my medical records review. They only get, by law, what is required to maintain my SI and they never ask for additional information outside of that which is salient to my SI renewal. These mil folks are giving the FAA a list of things, many are not applicable to holding a class 1 medical, yet now the FAA can, if they so decide, to have something "else" looked and verified. That is not fair, it's wrong and that is why I called it a fishing expedition. No other demographinc has to submit to this level of intrusion. Now, if the FAA was looking for things relating to his SI, then that is fair. But they are not. They want the VA disability rating report, something he's already provided, to be submitted again. If he doesn't they will withhold his medical. That is not fair, right or just.
03-15-2024, 06:31 PM
#74
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2023
Posts: 1,520
Again, you are wrong .
Your brother holds a special issuance. He is subject to a requirement to provide any and all information requested by the FAA at any time during the valid period of his special issuance. All airman, and all holders of special issuance are subject to this same requirement; the FAA issues the certificate, and the exemptions, and the FAA can take them away, re-examine them, or require more data. That is the FAA's perrogative.
Whether you have been asked for additional information is irrelevant, and poses no burden on the FAA; the FAA can and does ask whom it will, what it will, for its purposes, as the authority who has the responsibility to do so. You don't get to dictate what the FAA asks for. The FAA dictates; you provide. It's that simple.
This is not about military vs. civilian, and your brother does not hold a military special issuance. That's a FAA special issuance. Military, or civilian makes no difference. The FAA has requested documentation, and he will provide it, or may find himself without a special issuance or medical. Again, it's that simple.
Oh, there is, and the FAA does it all the time. You can refuse to provide data to the FAA. The FAA can also refuse to issue a medical certificate. Keep in mind that you do not have a right to a FAA airman medical certificate, nor to a pilot certificate.
You're going to have to explain this "military SI" thing. A "mil person" requires a special issuance, but a civilian doesn't? If a person has a condition which requires a special issuance, it doesn't matter if that person has a military background or not. That person has a legal requirement to declare it, and failure to declare it is a violation which may result in suspension or revocation (administrative action), up to and including criminal charges and fines/imprisonment, depending on the circumstances. There are penalties for failing to disclose, or faiilure to make truthful statements on a legal document (eg, airman medical application).
Your argument seems to be that you can get away with it. You sure that's how you want to roll?
Your argument seems to be that military personnel who seek a military disability rating (somthing military personnel must seek, to obtain benefits) are somehow rooted out by the FAA in a quest to unfairly target disabled military personnel. This is not true, and you do not understand either process.
The FAA did not target military personnel. The VA targed FAA certificate holders, while the VA was looking for disability fraud. The FAA tried to stay out of it, until the VA brought legal action.
The FAA has long required applicants to disclose diability claims. Read your airman medical application form. Item 18.y doesn't cite military disability benefits. The applicant is asked if (s)he has, or has ever had medical disability benefits . You could argue that you could get away with some benefits by hiding them from the FAA, and maybe you could, for a time. The FAA can and does discover such things by other means than self-disclosure. Perhaps you hide it for ten years but it shows up during an application for a special issueance for something entirely unrelated, in insurance paperwork, etc (which may become relevant and discovered); now you have a crime on your hands, instead of something you could have disclosed properly. Hide and violate the regulation at your peril, and kepe chanting to yourself that the FAA won't find out. Good luck.
Most of your comments are flawed in premise, and we could address that, but you're not listening, you're beating a drum for your own benefit, and you are agenda-driven here. Your implicit bias is wrong, but very apparent, and any effort to educate you on this matter is clearly wasted. Your commentary smacks of a fantasy world, and is far removed from reality. I focus on reality. If you make it back this way, stop in and say hi...but don't bring your assumptions and agenda with you. We won't be having that conversation again.
Your brother holds a special issuance. He is subject to a requirement to provide any and all information requested by the FAA at any time during the valid period of his special issuance. All airman, and all holders of special issuance are subject to this same requirement; the FAA issues the certificate, and the exemptions, and the FAA can take them away, re-examine them, or require more data. That is the FAA's perrogative.
Whether you have been asked for additional information is irrelevant, and poses no burden on the FAA; the FAA can and does ask whom it will, what it will, for its purposes, as the authority who has the responsibility to do so. You don't get to dictate what the FAA asks for. The FAA dictates; you provide. It's that simple.
This is not about military vs. civilian, and your brother does not hold a military special issuance. That's a FAA special issuance. Military, or civilian makes no difference. The FAA has requested documentation, and he will provide it, or may find himself without a special issuance or medical. Again, it's that simple.
Oh, there is, and the FAA does it all the time. You can refuse to provide data to the FAA. The FAA can also refuse to issue a medical certificate. Keep in mind that you do not have a right to a FAA airman medical certificate, nor to a pilot certificate.
You're going to have to explain this "military SI" thing. A "mil person" requires a special issuance, but a civilian doesn't? If a person has a condition which requires a special issuance, it doesn't matter if that person has a military background or not. That person has a legal requirement to declare it, and failure to declare it is a violation which may result in suspension or revocation (administrative action), up to and including criminal charges and fines/imprisonment, depending on the circumstances. There are penalties for failing to disclose, or faiilure to make truthful statements on a legal document (eg, airman medical application).
Your argument seems to be that you can get away with it. You sure that's how you want to roll?
Your argument seems to be that military personnel who seek a military disability rating (somthing military personnel must seek, to obtain benefits) are somehow rooted out by the FAA in a quest to unfairly target disabled military personnel. This is not true, and you do not understand either process.
The FAA did not target military personnel. The VA targed FAA certificate holders, while the VA was looking for disability fraud. The FAA tried to stay out of it, until the VA brought legal action.
The FAA has long required applicants to disclose diability claims. Read your airman medical application form. Item 18.y doesn't cite military disability benefits. The applicant is asked if (s)he has, or has ever had medical disability benefits . You could argue that you could get away with some benefits by hiding them from the FAA, and maybe you could, for a time. The FAA can and does discover such things by other means than self-disclosure. Perhaps you hide it for ten years but it shows up during an application for a special issueance for something entirely unrelated, in insurance paperwork, etc (which may become relevant and discovered); now you have a crime on your hands, instead of something you could have disclosed properly. Hide and violate the regulation at your peril, and kepe chanting to yourself that the FAA won't find out. Good luck.
Most of your comments are flawed in premise, and we could address that, but you're not listening, you're beating a drum for your own benefit, and you are agenda-driven here. Your implicit bias is wrong, but very apparent, and any effort to educate you on this matter is clearly wasted. Your commentary smacks of a fantasy world, and is far removed from reality. I focus on reality. If you make it back this way, stop in and say hi...but don't bring your assumptions and agenda with you. We won't be having that conversation again.
The FAA is asking for something that no civilian has to provide. That is wrong. Becasue civilians aren't under the purview of the VA. VA is a defined benefit for service members. That is all. Again, you yourself delineated that conditions exist from the military that don't preclude issuance of the FAA medical. You;ve explained how the FAA got invovled, but in my borhters case and many others I've read here they've already provided the information to the FAA as part of an issuance. Which is all they are required. If no issuance is sought, no disability $$ is being recevied, then they don't have to comply. This is akin to the FAA asking all pilots who hold a medical to provide a bullet point list of their medical records. They don't, they can't. This is specifically realted to VA and that means former military folks. That = witch hunt.
Your are obviously not familiar with the VA Ratings Document. Ask a military person about it. In short the VA doc will go thru your entire military medical history and pull out things, some very insignificant, they think will attribute to the person getting the highest disability rating possible. Many things are mundane, some are not. And like my brother, he had OSA so had to get an SI for that. He also had 8 other things listed that he recevied no $$$ for but are listed as service connected medical conditions with disablity rating of zero. None are disqualifying or require any other testing outside of a class 1 medical. However, the FAA has those findings and nothing precludes them from having my brother get one of those "investigated" or tested for further means should they so decide.
No civilian is exposed to that level of disclosure. None. As I said earlier, I'm a civilian, I have an SI and I only have to provide that information to the FAA which is pertinent and salient to my continuation. The FAA has asked for nothing more of my medical history. They can't. the FAA just can't randomly ask any pilot for their medical history. SI or not. If it's an SI, then it has to be a condition related to the SI.
I'm not arguing about the SI, yes, they can ask for anything related to support that issuance. Nothing more though. No fishing expeditions allowed. Unless you are military, receiving disability $$$. The only way they know that is they have disclosed the condition due to an SI requirement.
So again, I'll ask, why is the FAA asking him for a document he has already provided them? Why? Are they hunting for PTSD stuff?? IDK. They don't ask me, they don't ask any other civilian for that level of background, why are they targeting military folks?
Last edited by Hotel Kilo; 03-15-2024 at 07:00 PM.
03-15-2024, 07:03 PM
#75
Disinterested Third Party
Joined APC: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,261
This is not true (far from it), and becasue it is not true, and you insist on repeating the same tired falsehoods, you're not worthy of further discourse.
03-15-2024, 07:10 PM
#76
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2023
Posts: 1,520
I've been in the major airline business for about 30 years. Never heard of it. Do you have documentation and case history to support? When I got my SI, I did not. And the FAA has never asked for it. Only the conditions salient to my issuance.
Don't deflect, just asking a simple question. And you can't deny that military is being treated differently than civilians. There is ample proof of that here on these forums.
03-16-2024, 01:54 AM
#77
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jan 2024
Posts: 42
Outside of an SI what civilian has ever had to provide the FAA their complete medical history?
I've been in the major airline business for about 30 years. Never heard of it. Do you have documentation and case history to support? When I got my SI, I did not. And the FAA has never asked for it. Only the conditions salient to my issuance.
Don't deflect, just asking a simple question. And you can't deny that military is being treated differently than civilians. There is ample proof of that here on these forums.
I've been in the major airline business for about 30 years. Never heard of it. Do you have documentation and case history to support? When I got my SI, I did not. And the FAA has never asked for it. Only the conditions salient to my issuance.
Don't deflect, just asking a simple question. And you can't deny that military is being treated differently than civilians. There is ample proof of that here on these forums.
03-18-2024, 06:06 PM
#78
Prime Minister/Moderator
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: Engines Turn Or People Swim
Posts: 40,034
03-18-2024, 06:13 PM
#79
Prime Minister/Moderator
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: Engines Turn Or People Swim
Posts: 40,034
That's a lot of words but you didn't answer my juxtaposition of a civilian versus a former mil person. There is no way the FAA can ask a civilian for their records. None. Get wind of it? How? If you had a condition and kept it from your AME and never discussed it with anyone, there is no way the FAA could go on a fishing expedition to find you out. None (unless they filed for SS disability). So long as they continue to pass their class 1 no one is going to know anything. I'm not talking about getting in a major car wreck that requires hospitalization, cancer or other stuff. Just simple things that a mil person would require an SI for but undisclosed a civilian would never have to deal with.
It is easier for them to troll records of disability payments, VA, SS, state or what have you. Government financial info is not HIPAA protected.
But a vet can side-step all of that by simply not applying for any VA disability. Then he's like any other civilian. FAA cannot peruse military medical records without probable cause.
03-18-2024, 06:15 PM
#80
Prime Minister/Moderator
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: Engines Turn Or People Swim
Posts: 40,034
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