rickair7777

Yeah I'm sure some of those affected got out as enlisted or non-pilot officers, and pursued flight training via the GI Bill. Few of those folks would have had any reliable advice available, or even known that resources such as APC existed at the time.

WhisperJet

don’t forget the FAA also cross checks with NDR

rickair7777

They tell you that on the form.

They probably need to put a similar warning for VA and SS. Shouldn't have to, but they probably should.

PineappleXpres

Weed is legal too. I fail to see the excuse.

rickair7777

Junior enlisted don't have respectable senior people telling them to smoke weed, and as much of it as they can get their hands on.

After my last extended AD recall, I went in because my feet hurt from running a lot in boots (in my 40's go figure). They looked at my DD214 and tried to talk me into claiming TBI and PTSD because "combat zone".

My combat zone service on that trip consisted of staff duty at the 'Deid. Left the wire exactly once... to go to the Doha airport and go home. "Oh but that doesn't rule out PTSD"

PTSD from what? Working out on the ellipticals behind the row of treadmills being used by young women in lycra?

CX500T

Meanwhile, the VA goes DENY-DENY-DENY on things that are actually wrong with me (Sleep apnea from having my face reconstructed, a host of orthopedic stuff) but every time I go there for appeals or exams, they tell me "if you just claim TBI or PTSD that would put you over 100%" when I have claimed everything but.

They did the same thing with my dad. Was fighting them for years for issues from a helicopter crash (back/neck/burns, it's a family tradition it seems) and later on agent orange exposure. Never claimed PTSD. When he could not longer work or hold a medical he said F it I have PTSD and boom 100% in 5 months. After 30+ years of "nothing wrong with you except age" from the VA.

JohnBurke

Dunno, but doing the Doha round trip during the pandemic was stressful. Pre, during, and post. That's Al Udeid to town and back. Six hours one way, sometimes, and often uphill both ways. Didn't actually experience it, but I could imagine snow.

Forget not, camel spiders.

At my age, that is stress.

Disorder, too.

Pretty damn traumatic, come to think about it.

Hotel Kilo

I don't agree. My brother, who was a mil pilot, and receives VA disability for OSA, disclosed all of this in order to get his SI for OSA. That was 8 years ago (BTW the military was totally cool with his OSA). So he's been on the SI going on 9 years. Now he just received the letter from FAA Aeromed asking for his Veterans Disability letter (I think that's what he called it). He sent that in with his original paperwork to get his SI over 8 years ago. Why are they asking for it again? I know vets can go back to the VA and seek more disability, but more follows...

It seems for current and former military folks the FAA can easily harass them. What about us pure civilians? What if a civilian pilot has tennitis? What if they never disclose it? What about if a civilian has OSA? What if they never dislcose it? How is the FAA going to know? They won't. It's only the former mil folks that are getting this rub down, because the FAA knows there is a history and they can dig for it if they want. On the civilian side - no. If a civilian doens't want to disclose (stupid) there is no way the FAA can track that down. None (assuming said civilian never files fo SS disability for that condition). Your Part 67 comment is comical. Do you have any idea what additional tests they will ask for? No, you don't. Using tinnitis as an example, you could be jumping thru hopes for a ringing in your ears that most folks have after spending any time around airplanes or other loud noise polluted environments. Is it normal conversation test or a full on hearing test? If the FAA values hearing accuity then they should include it as part of the class 1 medical. But they don't, because it doesn't matter, unless youare one getting VA disability for it. A total contradiction that even you unknowingly point out in your post.

JB do you disclose when you go see the doc for diarrhea? How about a head cold? Do you sneeze and cough during pollen season? Uh-oh, you've got allergies. Better self disclose. That's going to require an SI and lots of testing. Your comment "The Civil Aerospace Medical Institute (CAMI--FAA's medical hq) is well aware of the difference between military disability ratings and FAA aeromedical standards, and quite aware that one can hold both a valid FAA medical, while holding a military disability rating." Is a contradiction. Let's look at tinnitis. Can you hold a class 1 with it - yes. Does the FAA test hearing - no. Does the VA rate it as a disability - yes. If the FAA is not mandating for medical issuance, then why do they care if you have a disability rating for it from the VA? If the FAA knows that there is a difference, then why are they asking former mil folks for their veterans determination letters - again. The only reason the FAA konws they have them is becasue the servicemember submitted them for their SI to begin with in full disclosure. This whole thing - it's silly and some one needs to reign in the FAA on this ASAP. this is total low hanging fruit lazy bureucrat BS. Nothing more. And after they've stressed out, psychologically tortured the airman, caused them to jump thru hoops when the information is provided as part of a original SI issuance and continuation, what is the end objective?


It seems very unfair the FAA is doing this to our veterans. Especially if they've disclosed. That should be it, shut the door. But now they want the VA stuff from my brother - again. He's ****ed. My brother's is 8 pages long. Heck the VA guy even put hypertension in there. My brother has never had an issue at any of his FAA Class 1 medicals with his blood pressure. They way he described it to me is the VA doc tries to find anything that will get a disablility rating, even zero - whereas the FAA, contrary, is looking for anything. It's a total fishing expedition and needs to be shutdown. That's my opinion. If you can pass your first class medical as given, then so be it. The FAA needs not to be concerned. If they don't like it the FAA can change the medical standards for issuance. How about we all get astronaut physicals (which include full pscyhe workups) then. I doubt 80% of us could pass one.

My brother doesn't ***** about it. He just rolls with it. But this little easter egg they sent him this cycle really chapped him. I'm just relaying for him.

Hotel Kilo

Do they do the same thing for civilian backgrounds? No. They don't. Unless they've filed for SS disability they'd never know unless self disclosed.. There is no way for the FAA to find out thru a backdoor other than SS disability filings. The FAA doesn't ask you for your SS disability do they? They should, for every civilian pilot in the US theyb should. It's only fair. If you don't have it nothing to worry about right? Yet every veteran that has an SI is getting the letter asking them to submit their VA disability determination letter again. Why?

A servicemember is absolutely entitled to their benefits from service. So what if they fly planes and receive VA disability? You yourself have posted that the FAA knows the difference, yet here we are. Again, so what?

unless you meet one of the big 4 disqualifiers for a Class 1 or 2 medical, then it should not matter. If the FAA wants to tighten up the issuance standards for ALL airmen, then they need to do so. Not target the ducks in the pond low hanging fruit former mil folks who just so happened to serve our country honorably and are merely seeking those benefits entitled them. My brother, who was a USAF pilot, has 8 or 9 pages from the VA ratings. Most of it is stuff he is rated at "zero". He gets no VA $$ for those. Only OSA is paid to him as disability.

So many contradictions between you and rickair here I can't keep it straight. uugggghh.

JohnBurke

Don't bank on that. We can spend from now until the second coming sharing anecdotes about such discoveries. I've seen it first hand, and have shared and listened to and read enough others to fill vollumes, but the FAA can and does get wind of failures to disclose. A favorite was the pilot who lost a son, who was buried at an airport that the pilot flew over on his departure. During a conversation with a reporter, the pilot remarked that every time he flew over that cemetary, he silently said a prayer for his son. It made print, human interest. Touching, and all that. The FAA got hold of it. Grounded him. His remark, they said, showed, an inability to adjust. He was grieving far too long. A very expensive journey back to the cockpit.

Paperwork can arise through other investigations, via insurance, and other avenues. I've relayed here the case of an airman I knew, violated by an inspector I knew, for remarks made during a church service. That case wasn't medical; the private pilot had flown a friend, and the friend bought him lunch. Compensation. The inspector was in the congregation that day, heard it, caught up with the private pilot in the foyer, and that was that. The private pilot left the church in tears.

Pilots report other pilots. Word gets around. Rumors. The FAA finds out. Failure to disclose is a big deal. It's far from isolated to military aviators.

The. FAA enforces and investigates everyone. The FAA didn't start the most recent investigation of military personnel receiving benefits. The FAA refused the DoD's efforts to get the FAA to become involved, until the DoD took legal action to force the FAA to comply. This is not the first time. The FAA has also done similar investigations with State databases that were not military, with social security, etc. In this particular case, the FAA did not go to the DoD. The Department of Defense (VA) went to the FAA and pressured the FAA.

Negative. The FAA may request and review at any time, and does. Because you provided documentation once, doesn't mean you won't have to provide it again. That documentation may be the same as previously provided, but the investigation may be tangential to the existing special issuance, medical certificate, airman file, it. The FAA may be investigating a doctor, or AME. One is subject to investigation as the holder of an FAA certificate, be it medical pilot, mechanic, instructor, flight engineer, etc. Every bit as much as an airman inside the SiDA, or John Q Public, is always subject to search of person or property at any time, badged and credentialed or not, as a condition of entry. One is subject to inspection and review at any juncture, by the FAA.

I had kidney stones, a number of years ago now. The FAA allows one event, but the airman must show that repeat occurrences are not anticipated, and that the airman is stone-free. It can be a debilitating event. Most people don't get kidney stones again, but the FAA could very easily call for that documentation once more, and in the interest of verifying that no stones have occurred, request new evidence, such as x-rays, ultrasound, etc. Provide it, or find another career. Military or not. It doesn't matter.

The FAA Adminstrator is charged by an Act of Congress to promote aviation, regulate aviation and oversee aviation safety, the three prong charter from which the FAA is responsible for issuance of medicals and pilot certificates. There is no right to either one. Both are privileges. Those privileges are congtingent on adherence to the regulation and policy, as well as safety. The FAA is concerned with both . One may take a common medication over the counter, and the FAA may not have a concern about the medication (or may), but is always concerned with the underlying condition for which the medication is taken. Aviation medicine is not taken lightly, nor should it be.

The Standards for a first class medical go far beyond what you may have read in Part 67 (you have read it, right?). It's medicine. It's not simply black and white, pass-fail. A lot of it is subjective. Some of it is likely completely transparent to you, when you get our exam. Did you know that you'd been evaluated psychologically, to the satisfaction of the AME, each time you'd been in, just as a function of the conversation you had? What you think is no big deal, may be. What you think is insurmountable, may not be. Special issuances are not forever; they come with conditions and renewal/expirations, and are subject to review. A first class medical is not what most think it to be. Get a head-cold,and your medical certificate is not valid for use; it's only valid when you meet the standards, and if you operate in an unairworthy condition (blocked sinus, for example), you're operating without a valid medical certificate. Most airmen know they shouldn't fly if sick, but many do anyway, and many don't really grasp the true meaning of the validity of their certificate. Simply because you have the paper in hand doesn't mean one-and-done. It doesn't work that way, and I find far fewer who know that, than are ignorant of the fact.

Medical conditions are individualistic; one can't say "type II diabetes is approved," for example, and think that the FAA owes one certification when one is diagnosed with Type II diabetes. Some cases, the FAA AME may issue; others the FAA provides special issuance, and other cases, the FAA may decline to issue. It comes down to each individual case. If your buddy had type 2 and got a medical, and you have type II and are refused, you might think this unfair...after all, he got his medical, so you're owed one too. But not remotely so. Each airman's case is considered on its own merits, and it may be the specific condition, or it may be the relationship between multiple conditions, or the interaction of certain medications, etc. The FAA does have a reason for asking for certain documentation, though you may not always be informed about the specifics.

When you say the FAA "need not be concerned," rest assured that the FAA is very concerned, and has every right, responsibility, and authority to be concerned, and to investigate and to obtain documentation today, tomorrow, and a year from tomorrow. The FAA issues the certificate and regulates it. If you've been issued a medical certificate, this doesn't grant carte blanche to use it without limitation until it comes due, again. Pull out your medical certifiate and read the limitations on the back. You must carry it at all times when exercising its privileges. The FAA can reverse it at any time within 60 days of issuance (and can revoke or suspend it at any time). You must continuously comply with the validity standards for your class of medical (if at any time you don't meet them, you can't use the privileges of the certificate). You must comply with any statement or limitation on the certificate (eg, corrective lenses required, etc). You Must also comply with standards relating to prohibition of operation during medical deficiency. You may feel fine, but that's irrelevant. If you don't meet the standard due to a deficiency, you can't use the certificate, as it's not valid during medical deficiency.

It's a very unwise approach to think the FAA won't find out. If the FAA does find out, you've arrived at that undesirable point when the music stops and you have no chair. Don't expect it to go well, military, or not.

THe FAA does not require that. It is not a medical condition upon which medical certification is contingent. However, if one were to see a medical professional for whatever caused the diarrhea, then one would be required to disclose that. As previously noted, each case is individual: if one were to have severe diarrhea/dysentary as a result of contracting cholera, for example, you'd both ground yourself (your medical wouldn't be valid), and you'd report it ("disclose" it).

A temporary condition may not require disclosure, but again, it's subjective. Moreover, if one isn't medically fit, as previously discussed, then one may not exercise the medical certificate. If one thinks one won't be caught, one may take one's chances. Very unwise.

As an aside, I can tell you about three cases when I had my sinuses blown out, in flight, and ended up receiving emergency care, and it hasn't happened to you, rest assured that you don't want that experience. It is incapacitating. Same for blown eardrums. Trust me on that, too. Same for filling that vents into the jaw and the nerve. I experienced that at eighteen thousand on a parachute jump, once. One of the less-pleasant things I recall in aviation. The specifics aren't necessary here, but I can't think of anything that I haven't discussed at length with my AME. It has cost me downtime.

I'm grounded right now, as I have detailed on this site before. This isn't academic hot air.

It may, or may not, depending on the individual, and the FAA is conerned about both the medication and the underlying condition, and any interations with other medications, too. Seeing as you brought it up, however, severe allergies do require a FAA decision and supporting documentation: https://www.faa.gov/ame_guide/app_process/exam_tech/item35/amd/allergies

Depending on the condition and individual a medical might be issued, declined, or conditions established, to include special issuance, and any medications must also be factored in.

There is no contradiction.

One can hold disability with the VA/DoD, and still hold a medical certificate. That the VA cites something as a disability does not mean it prevents one from flying or holding a given class of airman medical certificate. Two diffent organizations, and two different standards. This is not contradictory. The does not set, observe, or determine FAA medical standards. The FAA does not utilize VA standards to deterine FAA medical certification. The VA can declare an individual disabled within its framework, for its purposes, and this places no burden on the FAA to declare that airman unairworthy. The FAA makes decisions related to its own jurisdiction. The FAA is certainly interested in disclosure of a disability rating, because this is a legal requirement, and because it may or may not represent an issue of airworthiness to the FAA. The FAA will make that decision, as it does in all cases regarding airman certification. The VA decides for the VA. The FAA decides for the FAA.

Not a contradiction.

Hearing loss is the most common disability among servicemen, by orders of magnitude.

Does the FAA test for hearing? YES. You may not know it, but the FAA does, and when the AME issues your medical, he is certifying that he has determined that you meet the standard. There are more methods than one, to make that determination; like many other things, you may not realize that the AME has evaluated you or made that determination.

The VA/DoD may issue a disability rating based on hearing loss of tinnitus. This places no burden on the FAA to limit an airman's medical standard, but each medical is individual.

https://www.faa.gov/ame_guide/app_process/exam_tech/et/25-30/middle_ear

The FAA, incidentally, by regulation (67.105, .205, .305) requires that an applicant hear a spoken voice at six feet, with his back turned to the speaker. You may have been spoken to, and not know you were being tested.

Tinnitus is symptomatic; it may be indicative of a number of things, and it may be the underlying condition that's significant (eg, acoustic neuroma, or Meniere's syndrome. It may not. My ears ring all the time; it's loud. I can pass a medical and a hearing exam, but my hearing isn't great. Far too many years of turbojet engines, even louder radial engines, gunfire, etc. I sleep with a TV on for the noise, which lessens the effect of the constant ringing, but I hear it right now, and yes, it's been disclosed. While this, and many other things are valid for a military disability, they do not bar medical certification by the FAA; different standards, different purposes, different effects, different outcomes, different criteria and difficluties. This is not contradictory. If the VA/DoD finds a condition to be worthy of a disability rating, neither the VA or DoD presume to determine if the individual is physically fit to hold FAA medical certification. It's irrelevant. Likewise, the FAA's decision to grant an airman medical certificate does NOT invalidate a DoD disability rating.

https://www.aviationmedicine.com/article/hearing-loss/