CX500T

JB pretty much hit everything I was gonna say and more.

rickair7777

Yes hard to sue the government in general, and it typically only pans out when they are in aggregious violation of law or common sense.

FAA aeromedical taking their slow bureaucratic time to address a certification issue is well within the scope of their authority, I think you'd have to show malicious intent to have any shot at a liability claim, ie somebody didn't like you personally and deliberately stalled the process.

I've also never heard of the FAA, or any government agency, being held liable for lost wages due to slow processes. I'm sure the precedent is already set against that, otherwise people would do it all the time (or the FAA would process cases quickly to avoid it).

Bahamasflyer

You guys are all missing the point.....

He ALREADY was cleared by the FAA to fly. There was no change in his medical condition, nor any adverse info they recieved that wasnt already previously reported. It was because of the FAA's own incompetence that he mistakenly had his medical temporarily revoked. Do you guys seriously not see that??

And you guys are implying that there shouldn't be any legal accountability for such gross incompetence.

Hell ****ing yea he should lawyer up and fight like hell to hold the FAA accountable in this situation. There's always the chance one might not prevail but damn right one should at least go down fighting like hell, rather than do absolutely nothing in terms of redress.

And John Burke, like usual, is incorrect (shocking isnt it--he is unquestionably the most hated poster on here by far). One is still owed due process for something that is a privlidge and not a right. Granted, the burden of proof is much more lax than in a criminal matter, but its still there.

texas1970

there should be legal accountability, but there is none. A lawsuit would go nowhere and you’d be out a little more money than you already lost.

The FAA can issue, revoke, and deny certificates almost at will. You have the right to an appeal. And that’s about it.

JohnBurke

Ever been in that situation? No?

Some of us have. Some of us are. Some of us get the point very, very well.

You are not aware that a medical certificate in hand is not a guarantee?

You are not aware that a medical certificate in hand comes with a conditional period following issuance, during which it can be taken back, revoked, cancelled, or suspended pending further review?

You are not aware that the FAA, that issues the medical certificate, can request additional documentation at any time, based on existing information, or lack thereof?

Do you not know that after you receive your medical certificate from an AME, you can be contacted by phone, or by mail after that time, to be notified that the certificate will be held invalid, pending additional testing, documentation, or examination?

Examples are legion, but it may be anything from further review of your EKG, to detection of trace sugar in your urine; perhaps the AME thinks it's fine or doesn't flag it, but It does come up, and shortly there after you're sent for an A1C and you're on the hook for a special issuance, exams for diabetic retinopathy, yada, yada. It may be discovery of disability benefits undeclared or misdeclared, which might be VA, Social Security, Insurance, or other. It could be a lot of things, but simply becuase you walked out of a fifteen-minute exam witith your AME, with your paper certificate in hand, you have NO guarantee. None. Your ignorance of this fact changes nothing, and grants you no rights.

Certainly you have the individual right to "fight it" with an attorney. You also have the privilege to pay for that fight. Have you ever had to do that? No?

No one here has made any such implication (except you, of course, when you wrote it). First, it's not "gross incompetence." Like it, hate it, but it's within the scope of the duty and responsibility and the office of the FAA Flight Surgeon. Secondly, it's not a matter of shoulda, woulda, or coulda. Just a matter of what is. You want someone here to go sue the FAA, and apparently have your knickers in a twist about it. Bankroll it. Pay for it. See what it costs, and see what the results are, and then see what damage you've done to the airman making the application. Are you willing to put your money where your keyboard is, and is anyone in that situaiton wiling to stick their neck out for your righteous (but very ignorant) indignation? How much of your own money are you willing to put up for that "fight?"

None? Oh.

It cost Bob Hoover a big over six million dollars. How much of our legal bills will you be bankrolling?

How much of our medical bills will you be covering?

None? That's odd. You seem so gung-ho. Perhaps we should do it anyway, for you. You know, so you'll feel better, in your righeous (but ignorant, and wrong) indignation.

How much are you willing to spend to get educated?

How much have you spent? Some of us have already spent. You? Come one, mate. Join the club. The water's warm. Come on in!

"Go down fighting," to make a point? Spend six million just because? Perhaps to satisfy you? Since you're the one bankrolling us in this tilt at a windmill, perhaps we should humor you?

Now, that is interesting, isn't it? My posts are laced with citations, quotes, and links, and I prove my point, and no, I'm not wrong. I wouldn't have posted if I was wrong, nor taken the time to do the research or show the work, but you're always welcome to do the same and prove otherwise. You can do that, can't you?

The most hated poster here? Also interesting. You've made that point, so it's yours to defend, of course (though you can't, and certainly won't). How will you do that?

The world does not revolve around "likes," whether you have garnered that impression from social media, or not. Grow up.

What is "due process" when it comes to obtaining a medical certificate?

You do understand that the FAA does not owe you a medical certificate, don't you?

There is a legal appeal process. It has efficacy and a path once one has met the burden required to get the medical certificate. If the FAA requires additional documentation, you'd be a god damn idiot to file a law suit as your first course of action. What you would do, and what any competent professional would advise you to do, is supply the documentation, and keep supplying it until resolution is obtained. if you eventually get your medical certificate, you could sue civilly and argue that your personal health costs you too much, and argue that the government's deep pockets should pay for your personal medical condition or health. You could do that. Let us know how it turns out. On the other hand, if you are denied medical certification, you could enter the legal process to "fight like hell," and you could bankroll it, though you'd be a god damn idiot to do that instead of working through an organization that does it for a living, and taking their counsel. See how far that gets you, and when you've supplied every test result, every exam result, all of your medical history, and you still can't hold a medical, arguing that you should be able to hold a medical will net you precisely bupkiss. A judge can't order the FAA to issue a medical certificate.

Now, if the FAA has made a clearly obvious, non-medical decision about your medical certification (say, decided you're medically unairworthy based on yoru mental state, because you wore a green shirt with yellow dots, instead of a yellow shirt with greendots on a Wednesday), you may have a shot. But, it's gonna cost you. Good luck. We're all counting on you.

Well, not really, because whatever you do, and whatever you spend, and whatever head-banging you continue to do, won't change the speed of the rotation of the earth one iota, nor alter our day, nor cause anyone here any heartache. Then again, your hate doesn't really do that either. Sorry you're ineffective. Good luck, anyway.

PineappleXpres

Love the rant. Who do you work for again? What loss of license insurance do you carry? That seems like the only weapon. Preparedness from this dilemma that can find any of us at anytime.

aeroengineer

RIP Senator Imhofe.

Thank-you for the Pilot's Bill of Rights

JohnBurke

Loss of license, AFLAC and associated supplementary insurance, etc, are perhaps more critical than many realize. This is especially true of the young. A notable observation as Obamacare made insurance available (and mandatory) for many was that a lot of young people didn't bother. Health for many, if not most, is taken for granted. Cancer, covid, strokes, heart attacks, kidney failure, yada, yada, all old person stuff. Why bother.

My first round of being grounded came with kidney stones (and several surgeries, stent, etc), described here before. That event was several months without pay while I waited on a medical resolution. That time frame can be a year or more for some, depending on the backlog and what's wrong, as well as the difficulty in resolving (for those who don't use a service like AMAS, it can be an extended daisy-chain of the Administrator requiring additional documentation, which is time-consuming). That boils down to self-help, either via carried insurance(s), or savings, or other means (working, if able). It doesn't need to be an "old-person" malady to dig into the coffers; getting t-boned in an intersection counts, too.

The California ethos of suing the pants off anything that breathes, for the crime of breathing, does not always carry the day.

Bahamasflyer

With all of JB's embelished and far fetched stories (like the one about the FSDO inspector in church--does anyone REALLY believe him on that one?) he'll never divulge that.

JohnBurke

Nothing emellished about it. I was there, but you were not, were you?

You won't be paying for those law suits, then?

You'e never been in that position before either. Have you?

You needn't apologize for your lack of experience, but you really need to go get some. Perhaps then the world wouldn't seem to amazing to you.

Check back when you've been around the block, the first time.