LocDog249

I'm looking at taking the jump into becoming a pilot. I've been scouring the forums and watching so many videos on Youtube over the past few weeks. I have a few questions on some things I just wanted to get advice on.

About me: Soon to be 37, no kids, living in the Portland, OR metro area. I don't have a college degree (I know it's helpful as with any job, but my end goal isn't an ATP.) I do have about $45,000 saved up that I would like to use for my PPL, IR, CPL, and CFI. I will be able to be a student full time, flying as often as they will let me.
I don't have any hours logged. I do have a discovery flight booked next week and I have started filling out my medical forms. This is where I run into my first questions/concerns:
My understanding is there isn't much, if any, cost difference between getting the medical certificates. So I figure why not get the first class. Any down side to this?
A few areas of concern for me regarding the medical:
1. I have been seeing a therapist for mild/moderate depression for the past few years. No medications, no suicidal thoughts. Will this be an issue?
2. As a child I used to get motion sickness anytime I flew. The spinning tunnel amusement park attraction is a no go for me. I used to get faint from gory images and have chronic migraines. I did have an issue around 17 years of age where I passed out in the middle of a psychology class. I was low blood sugar from having not eaten all day and they were talking graphically/showing images of brain mapping. There is no medical record of this incident. I prefer to lay down any time I get blood drawn. I am not diabetic. Blood work always comes back just fine. (I have annual appointment with my primary next week too.) I have not had motion sickness nor have I had any other issues of passing out for the past 18 years. I haven't had a migraine or issues with gory images for about 20 years now (I spent lots of time watching ER shows on the Discovery Channel in my early 20's.) Will this be an issue and do they hold stuff against you from childhood if you have "outgrown it?"
I'm looking at going to a local 61 program. Like I said, my discovery flight is booked next week, and I'm in the process of filling out the medical so I can get the exam done.
Does $45k seem like enough to get to my CFI? On this note, I do have flexibility and could travel to a cheaper part of the country for flight training. Nice things about staying close though are most of my family is here (sisters) and no sales tax.
My dream job really consists of flying around Central America in a smaller airplane taking passengers to some touristy spots.
How profitable is a being a smaller scale pilot or a CFI for your career? So many just view them both as stepping stones to the majors.
Any help/advice/feedback is greatly appreciated.

Excargodog

Well, that one will get you a psych eval if you admit it to your AME.

rickair7777

1. Depression is disqualifying for any medical. If the depression is resolved, there will be a waiting period, after which they will require that you get an exam to prove it. Only then can you get a medical.

2. Any unexplained loss of consciousness will be disqualifying. They will want an explanation, or a lengthy waiting period with no recurrence (years). They would probably accept acute illness (ex. flu) or not eating as an explanation.

Most people get over motion sickness when they start flying. May take a little while. If it wasn't very severe as a kid, you'll probably get over it quickly

PerfInit

I’m not a physician, but I think there may be a possibility that “Adolescent Vasovagal Syncope” is different from a complete loss of consciousness. Check your childhood medical records and see if that term was stated anywhere. Recommend discussing this with an AME BEFORE you fill out the Student Pilot / Airman Medical application form.

LocDog249

Thanks for the replies.

For the depression aspect, I will email my therapist and see what my exact diagnosis is. I didn't recall seeing depression as an automatic DQ. Do you know how long the "cooling off" period would be?

For the childhood issues, I don't even know where my childhood medical records would be. I do recall getting a CT scan around the time I was 7 or 8 but I don't know where it was done. I don't know that my mom has that information anymore either. We've moved cross country several times. For the incident off losing consciousness as a late teen, there are no medical records for that.

I guess not knowing exactly how the medical works, I assumed I had to fill out the form and submit it, then meet with an AME but it sounds like that is not the case. So would I have an informal meeting with them first, and then the formal exam after I fill out the paperwork?

JohnBurke

There's no place on the medical form that asks about your reaction to "gory images."

Your description appears to be one of no medical diagnosis.

You didn't say the basis for seeing your therapist, specifically whether this was a referral based on a clinical diagnosis, or if you're seeing a therapist to work through issues. If this is an undiagnosed visit and you've elected to continue the therapy for your own purposes, it may be best to leave it at that and not bring that up.

Issues surrounding depression, medicated or not, can become a sticking point; if you haven't been diagnosed with depression, but are visiting with a counselor for anything from fear of large spiders in striped suits to divorce to getting in touch with your inner llama, that's up to you. I'd avoid referring to the issue of depression though.

You should be aware that if you present the issue of depression to the FAA, regardless of medical use, it does trigger a requirement for a mental health evaluation. Certainly if you have a psychological, emotional, or other need for counseling, you should receive it: this is more important than anything else; my comments here strictly regard the medical issue as far as certification. If you do stipulate to having depression, it becomes a mandatory evaluation, which will add expense (potentially considerable expense).

If you are indeed experiencing depression, then before you do anything else, I'd certainly seek some consultation before going for your medical. There are services that address this. The aircraft owners and pilots association offers services to guide you on this, as do other operations such as leftseat.com. I'm not telling you to withhold information, but there is more than one way to go about presenting, and you need to ensure that you should or shouldn't report in the first place. Don't report until you've had some discussion with your personal information, with an entity that specializes in this. AOPA is a good place to start.

As far as your dealing with carnival rides and gory images, these aren't disqualifying conditions. I don't like carnival rides. Some of my flying involves some wild rides at times (flight through forest fires, for example); it's very different in an professionally maintained and flown aircraft vs. the tilt-a-whirl, that's assembled and operated by a meth addict with a third grade education who can't remember last night. I hate ferris wheels, and I find myself thinking of little else but undiscovered cracks in the roller coaster. Not really a medical issue, but one of self-preservation and caution. It's healthy, actually.

rickair7777

It is an automatic DQ. IIRC the "cooling off" period is at least six months, but that may be post-medication. If there's no meds, it might be sooner... but if your doc is dragging out your diagnosis to keep you on the hook, you're going to need to wrap that up, and get a medical evaluation showing that you have no active mental health issues.


No, that is how the medical normally works. It's possible to consult the AME before you fill out the forms, but technically there's no such thing as "off the record" so anything you tell him, you have to assume the FAA will know.

A better option would be to pay an avaition medical consultant for advice on the way-ahead. They are typically *former* AME's so they know the drill but are generally not obligated to tell the FAA anything. Here's a popular one, you can google others:

https://www.aviationmedicine.com/

LocDog249

Thanks for the info on the consulting firm. I'll probably go that route to see what they say. I did Email my therapist and looked into my medical records and there is a clinical diagnosis of depression 33.1 with no other issues.
If I were to stop the appointments (they were winding down anyways as he feels im doing better) and get something from him stating my improvements, I presume that couldn't hurt my cause correct? Then I could see what the advice of the consultant was.
And for the one time loss of consciousness, since that is something that is not documented, did it ever really happen???

Any idea what the cost of the psych evaluation would be to show that depression is no longer an issue?

rickair7777

Don't stop treatment just to get a medical. You don't want to end up like some pilots with borderline (or worse) clinical depression who can't get help and live with it because they'd lose their job and their house.

If it happened, it happened. Whether you tell the FAA about or not is a different question. If they find out somehow, they will likely prosecute for prison time. If you have a recurrence later, you could end up unemployed after spending a bunch of time and money on training.

Like I said, talk to a consultant.


No, but it's going to be a lot less than the money you could make at a major airline someday.

Excargodog

All true. But lots of people will meet criteria for a depression SOMETIME in their life, During 2013–2016, 8.1% of American adults aged 20 and over had depression in a given 2-week period.

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/products/databriefs/db303.htm

But generally most depressions do resolve, with or without treatment although they do better WITH treatment. Once the depression does resolve, the process for getting certified is fairly easy. If you still require meds to resolve the depression it’s a little more tricky although even that is not necessarily an insurmountable issue for pilots who are already heavily invested in an aviation career.

See this:

Medical Never Submitted

If the problem is chronic, recurrent, or severe, you might not want to initiate such an investment though.