Originally Posted by dash8trash

Yeah, I stand by my statement. PDT (and AA for that matter) are both dumpster fires and both are risky, especially given the current circumstances with the continuance of Covid. Unless you have multiple failures or other extenuating circumstances and a flow is your only hope at escaping the regionals then I would seriously consider a stable company that you’d be okay spending some extra time at if the industry takes another turn south.

Hindsight is 20/20, but I would’ve most definitely avoided Piedmont if I knew then what I know now. I also came here for the quick upgrade and, while it was relatively fast, friends at other regionals hired at the same time as me upgraded at the same time because PDT training was SO inefficient and also because it took much longer for me to get 1000 hrs 121. I worked my butt off flying CLT-TRI, PHL-ABE, etc. and building time surprisingly takes a long time when you’re flying segments that are 0.6 hours total block… I wouldn’t bet on a fast upgrade or holding a line quickly at PDT and certainly wouldn’t make any career decisions based on that since it’s blatantly obvious the company is shrinking and the long term outlook is essentially unknown. The risk simply isn’t worth the reward.

Originally Posted by Tjeff

Piedmont had and I will give you I don’t know what the future will hold but I would guess sooner than later hub upgrades at 1000 hours and probably a line within the first couple months. The grass is greener syndrome human nature. I wouldn’t want to double commute to reserve for PSA or even commute. Who knows how long I would be on reserve in CLT or PHL at PSA, let alone get downgraded and lose half my pay for the pandemic.

Originally Posted by CADR

Cold hard facts for a moment.

97 Captain lines in PHL for September,
61 Captain lines in CLT for September.

175 Captains Bidding in PHL for September.
118 Captains Bidding in CLT for September.

PDT is currently only scheduled to upgrade 10-12 FOs / month which essentially cancels out the 6 flows to AA / month (generally Captains) add in those leaving for greener pastures (once again, generally Captains).

My point is, it will still be at a minimum a 3 year upgrade for new hire FOs, and once upgraded your OQL as a senior (+ 3 year) FO will go to crap and you will 100% be on reserve for quite a long time. Case in point, look at the number of bidding CAs for september vs the number of hard lines. It’s impossible to be on reserve as a commuter at PDT without having a crash pad due to the lack of both clear reserve rules and transparency between scheduling and the flight crews.

As for those numbers above, It’s pretty simple math to see PDT is stagnant. The flying at PDT is trending down, not up. You can say it’s because of Covid, and this is temporary, which is a possibility, however those are the cold hard numbers as of today.

Originally Posted by CADR

100% Agree. AA is going to have to hire more WO pilots outside the flow or AA will lose them to United, Delta, FedEx, UPS, ect. Obviously mostly the CAs. However, it seems a lot of WO FOs are leaving for Frontier and Spirit, which makes perfect sense when they realize it's going to take them 4 years to upgrade and 8-10 years to flow. No, thanks.

Originally Posted by Cicada

It doesn't seem that AA will increase the flow at Piedmont or any other WO. And AA does not seem to fret over pilots leaving for other majors. At this point, AA simply increases military hiring, which seems to be their preferred venue.
Spuds10250 =Reandld=Torquewrench= bad info.

Originally Posted by reandld

There are not enough military pilots to replace all the retirees at AA. Not to mention DAL, UAL, UPS and FDX will be poaching all the military guys they can get their hands on. The numbers are on the side of those currently working in the Eagle system. Whether it's an increase in flow (extremely likely) or just more hiring outside of the flow, there will be huge opportunities. There's nothing wrong with working your butt off and building valuable jet time, while also making yourself the best possible candidate to be hired.

Also, I find it comical that you think we're all the same person. Do you realize that this forum doesn't allow you to have multiple accounts? This is why people get banned all the time. It's not as easy as just having several emails and creating new accounts. LOL

Originally Posted by reandld

There are not enough military pilots to replace all the retirees at AA. Not to mention DAL, UAL, UPS and FDX will be poaching all the military guys they can get their hands on. The numbers are on the side of those currently working in the Eagle system. Whether it's an increase in flow (extremely likely) or just more hiring outside of the flow, there will be huge opportunities. There's nothing wrong with working your butt off and building valuable jet time, while also making yourself the best possible candidate to be hired.

Also, I find it comical that you think we're all the same person. Do you realize that this forum doesn't allow you to have multiple accounts? This is why people get banned all the time. It's not as easy as just having several emails and creating new accounts. LOL

Originally Posted by Tjeff

I do not know what the future holds, but all we can go by now is pre Covid and you could hold a line quickly after upgrade. I would guess it would go back to that, it’s Piedmont they always find a way to not have reserves. Not saying it’s good overall compared to PSA but in terms of holding a like as a CA in a hub and not sitting reserve or having to commute to an outstation PDT was better and I would venture to guess it will be once we return to “normality”. I don’t know exactly what was going on at PSA but it seemed if you wanted to be hub based you needed to sit reserve and not fly that much. Good if you don’t like to work, bad if you want to upgrade quick. I knew firsthand PHL PSA FOs were on long reserve and not flying a lot. You know you’ll be flying. Upgrade I don’t know? Was it Dayton in 2 years? Double commute? It didn’t seem like it was PHL or CLT? Reserve as a CA? How long? I am not exactly sure but I don’t think it was immediate upgrade in a hub, I don’t know how quickly you could build hours. I mean I was talking to an FO probably about 3 years ago in the CLT Terminal was a 2 year FO and quote “******* PSA I’m going to Piedmont”. My overall point is there are issues with every regional. Piedmont especially. If you’re at a regional with great pay, great QoL, quick upgrades and guaranteed legacy placement… I hope you don’t miss your van when you wake up. My goal was quick upgrade and flying to get me out ASAP hopefully stay near PHL. I got the call in just over 3 years. If I was at PSA or republic I wouldn’t have gotten the call because I wouldn’t of had 500 TPIC, I would’ve been downgraded and possibly displaced and commuting.

The other point is, just because right now the legacies are hiring like crazy now doesn’t mean they will be forever. Most of us when starting flight training just assumed we would be in a seat at a legacy. Get your time get out. Not necessarily it’s really tough to get a call. LCC maybe easier if that’s what you want but still no guarantees. That’s just for picking a WO versus contract, of course a flow isn’t guaranteed either but it’s a little more comforting than nothing.

Originally Posted by CADR

Cold hard facts for a moment.

97 Captain lines in PHL for September,
61 Captain lines in CLT for September.

175 Captains Bidding in PHL for September.
118 Captains Bidding in CLT for September.

PDT is currently only scheduled to upgrade 10-12 FOs / month which essentially cancels out the 6 flows to AA / month (generally Captains) add in those leaving for greener pastures (once again, generally Captains).

My point is, it will still be at a minimum a 3 year upgrade for new hire FOs, and once upgraded your OQL as a senior (+ 3 year) FO will go to crap and you will 100% be on reserve for quite a long time. Case in point, look at the number of bidding CAs for september vs the number of hard lines. It’s impossible to be on reserve as a commuter at PDT without having a crash pad due to the lack of both clear reserve rules and transparency between scheduling and the flight crews.

As for those numbers above, It’s pretty simple math to see PDT is stagnant. The flying at PDT is trending down, not up. You can say it’s because of Covid, and this is temporary, which is a possibility, however those are the cold hard numbers as of today.

Originally Posted by Tjeff

A lot of what I was referencing for piedmont’s future of probably quick upgrades and little reserve was when everything is back to normality. I don’t think September a historically slow month on the tail end of a pandemic when only a few airlines have been hiring for just a couple months is anything true indicator. You could be right as I said the next 3 years at PDT might not be as quick as the first 3 I had. I just have a feeling Piedmont will find a way to have too many captains moving needing tons of FOs upgrading don’t you?

Here is the bigger picture you just keep on missing my main point. I says it then you respond with all negativity with Piedmont. Other airlines have negatives. PSA is running FOs back to requal
in the left seat. They’ve always had more staffing and reserves meaning less flying for reserves leading to longer upgrades. I don’t know exactly what’s going on at other regionals, I know there were a lot of furloughs and downgrades which doesn’t seem like it would help make things move quickly for a new hire from my perspective. You say it’s 3 years to upgrade at Piedmont but how do you know that? How do you know it’s not 4.5 years at PSA then perms reserve over there? That’s the point, all regionals have issues. I citied earlier before the pandemic a PSA pilot said screw PSA I’m going to Piedmont. I know an FO who said it was a year and a half for reserve in PHL. You want to say cold hard facts. Well here is a cold hard fact all regionals have their flows and fair share of unhappy people. This forum is way more negative about Piedmont then people in person.

Remember everyone, things do suck right now, not much hiring or movement but that’s due to a pandemic that’s hopefully ending. You think their was movement at PSA or republic? No people got downgraded. Idk about a lot of you but half the months last year had so many days dropped with pay and full min guarantee retaining my seat. Could’ve been a lot worse. “Hey look at that green grass over their!”